Facial Exercise: FlexEffect® Board Archive Re: Cosmetics

SKIN PRODUCTS

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1747

Skin damage question Aug 14, 2001     

Hi All,

I have slight discoloration (brown, mottled) skin along my naso-fold lines that make them appear much worse than they are. This is new, just sprung up during the past several months. I'm on the Obagi system right now, gearing up for my peel. I started it 3 weeks ago, and these brownish areas got real crusty and peeled right away and remain red. I'm guessing that this is an indication of real sun damage on those areas. The rest of my face isn't really peeling, and I only have one other tiny brown dot on my forehead--no other mottled skin. My question is: Do you think the Obagi bleaching/lightening agents will get rid of the brownness? Or will the peel eliminate it? It's really making my folds look much worse than they are because it makes them stand out. If I put skin-matching makeup on the spots, my folds vitually disappear. Just wondering if anyone has had any success in getting rid of mottled skin...

Lynne
IP: 205.188.192.187


Hi Lynne,

I have the hyperpigmentation also along the nasal folds and on the tops of my cheeks outlining under the eyes.  I totally hate this!  Makes my lines look much worse.   I'm afraid to use any skin lightening products with hydroquinine (sp)? in it.   So what I have been using lately is the skin bio products.  The tri-reduction cremes every other night.  And the cp serum during the day.  My brown spots are definitely fading.  Whether or not they will disappear totally I don't know but am hoping!!

If anyone knows of a product that will eliminate these I would love to hear about it also!

Bonnie

Hi...

don't know if this will work for you..but try Hope's Glow Vitamin Cream (Hope Aesthetics.com) Read...ask for sample; you be the judge.

Jean

1743

The wrinkle cure   Aug 10, 2001     

Has anybody tried or been successful with Dr. Perriconne's diet and creams?

Connie
IP: 63.67.120.229

Hi Connie,

I like his products....have not tried his diet...other than tried eating salmon for 3 days just to see.....there is great deal of truth to this what you put inside has direct effect on outside!  try it.....He had suggested if you wanted to look really great for some special occasion to eat salmon 3 days prior to.  He has definitely got something there.  My wrinkles have not been 'cured'....lol...but they look healthy!!  lol.  People have had monumental success using his products from all accounts; the
contents of are certainly the right stuff for benefits....as with all else, depending on extent of damage already in place I am sure.  But yes, the skin care creams etc. are beneficial.

Jean

1741

Cosmetics .. Bare Essentials   Aug 9, 2001 

I have been flexing for several months, and have seen results, will certainly continue, resistance training only makes sense to me....anyway, I have also just discovered a new line of cosmetics,
called Bare Essentials, and was wondering if anyone here has used it and has any comments.....thanks

Pegwillen
IP: 137.146.110.58

1731

CP Serum / Alpha lipoic Aug 4, 2001  

Hi Jean,

Is there more benefits in using the serum over the P&R products? I started using the P&R #3 (contains retinol) for a few months, but I was considering on my next order to try the serum and was

wondering why you chose & prefer it?

I was so excited when I found Perricone's Eye Area Therapy in a new store someone told me about.  The store sells freight that's been damaged. The box must have broken open, but the individual bottles were intact and still sealed.  The eye cream contains the same l% alpha lipoic acid as the  face firming cream and contains the NTP Complex. When I read Perricone's site about
these products, the main ingredients for the face & eye creams look identical so I am going to test it on my face as well as eyes. I bought several bottles since they cost 92% under the list price of $45 for l/2 oz!!!!  How long did you use the firming cream before you noticed results?  Are you using it 2x a day as suggested on the instructions?  Do you use the CP serum at the same time, or do you alternate the products between morning & night or between days?  Can you tell me what the
firming cream instruction say about the amount to apply so I use the same amount of the eye therapy on my face? 

Thanx,
Terri
IP: 130.101.6.157

Terri,

Can you provide me with information on this store you found, ie. address, phone number and web site if any.

Thanks,
-Ed

Sorry Ed

but I don't think its a chain store, just a local little store.  Its called Great Freight.  I think once a product is sold out, its gone.  They don't order items, I believe they buy damaged freight & excess stock, or fire damaged merchandise.  Most of the stuff in there was hardware and household items--lots of junk you'd just pass up.  It has only 4-5 aisles.  It was a fluke thing that the perricone product was in there with the "cheapy" body & hand lotions.   

Terri

Hi Terri: 

I use CP serum and emu oil..a.m...often use P&R 3 pms....yes, I alternate products.   I prefer serum for no other reason, than for my 'time frame' of life, it just seems to penetrate better.  I have often used eye cream on lines around mouth...eye cream I believe has more emolliants in it than moisturizers...as is for sensitive eye area...where there are no oil glands...I think this is fine to do..I frequently use it on these lines around mouth area.  Don't know about entire face; never tried it that way...I need 'hydration', so I basically stick with hydrating moisturizers.  The firming cream: I would
say several months..though I did see improvement in clarity and just a nice smooth appearance before that time slot.  The face firming cream (Perricone) says to 'apply liberally' to entire face starting from forehead (hairline), down in downward strokes, including eye lids...down neck, then up sides of neck behind ears. It is not so much about using a vast array of skin care products, is about having what you need at your fingertips...my skin changes...I have been 'practicing' for eons, so I can pretty much look in the mirror in morning and tell what my skin "needs" on any given day.   some days I prefer 'dewy', some days I prefer more sophisticated look...some days I just need hydration. I love makeup, but my skin has got where most days, I don't even need but a minimal amt of makeup...and I attribute this to skin care and diet and exercise...and flexing. I do love these products we are discussing and good luck with your eye creams...keep us posted..I have never used the cp serum WITH alpha lipoic (at same time)..but I have used other serums with alpha lipoic; worked
fine....if in doubt as to skin sensitivity...try using your product combos on backs of hands or forearms for sev days and see what transpires. I try not to 'layer' stuff that has variety of 'ingred'..but sometimes I have done this (with no adverse effects, but I don't think my skin is sensitive type).must be more careful if you have sensitive skin!   I have found that most of the products I lean toward have basically the same contents, with variations therein. 'firming creams and serums' do seem to be very nice, as far as it CAN go...I wish there WAS an instant firm up potion....but I just don't think there is...but every little bit helps! lol.  they do give visual 'perk up', absolutely, and I love the feel of them...however, building muscle is the only "real" lift I have experienced to date..not saying creams are not an assist, as they surely can be....and I keep using them!!! 

lol....Jean

Thanks Jean. 

I figured the eye cream was more emollient, but usually products have a lower percentage of ingredients for the eyes (for example glycolic acid), yet Perricone's eye cream has the same % alpha lipoic as the face cream.  Ive been using it  for 3 days without any sensitivity problems.  I too am finding I need to wear less foundation since Ive been using several of the products recommended on the board.  This is amazing to me as Ive always had to wear foundation before Id leave the house!  Flexing too has made the skin look firmer.  Im only at the 3 mo. mark, can hardly wait to see what's going to happen at 6 mo. & l yr.  My hubby doesn't tease me about flexing, he understands the
concept & muscles better than I.  Only thing he questioned me about was whether I will be pleased with the results because he says sometimes when you build a body muscle it doesn't always look good and you don't get the results you were after.  He thinks flexing might make my appearance dramatically change.   By doing all the exercises, I don't think its possible not to like the results.

I wrote Deb concerning whether my problem area was really bottom furrow lines.  She called to inform me they were not, & that the lines forming on my lower mouth are improved by the lower lip
curl exercises.  Naturally, those 2 exercises are the most difficult for me to do, and she said that made sense because those muscles are particularily weak. If you have any suggestions or tips on how to do the lip curl exercise your imput would be greatly appreciated.  I have doubled up on those exercises & hold the counts longer, but I don't feel Im doing the exercise properly.  Since I didn't think to ask Deb, on the Adv. exercise how far into the corners of my bottom lip should I place the index fingers to get the best results?  I know Jason says to experiment, and do what works best for you, but Im not feeling a good contraction no matter how I do it so I think I must not be
doing it properly.  

Terri       


Hi Terri...

It took me a very long time to even feel the muscle in lower lip curl...now I can do it without even using my fingers.  I just did it the way is described on Deb's video and in the book...I never tried any particular variations in this one particular area. only other one I have tried for lips is back in workshop someplace...if you can't find, give a holler. lower lip curl works very well, just took me a long time to feel the resistance...so hang in there.  just like reverse chew; it took me nearly 5 mos to feel it in my temples!  I do now...but did not initially.  

Jean       

Thanks again

I sure will hang in on the lower lip curl, im determined to see some improvement.   

Terri

YOU WILL!!!! 

Jean

Hi Terri

My hubby doesn't tease me about flexing, he understands the concept & muscles better than I.  Only thing he questioned me about was whether I will be pleased with the results because he says sometimes when you build a body muscle it doesn't always look good and you don't get the results you were after.

I was also concerned about the results, but figured I'd just stop if I didn't like what I saw. Also, Deb and Jason emphasis being "creative", so I basically took good looks at my face and decided what I wanted to build, what I wanted to maintain and went from there. For example I didn't want to build up my chin/lower lip area so I only flex those parts maybe every three days. I wanted to build up my cheeks and under my eyes, so I work those parts harder 5-6 days a week. So I end up doing most all the excersizes, but some more often and harder than others. I DO look a bit different, I admit. My face looks more sculpted but this is a good thing. I really do like the shape and planes of my
face this way...looks a bit Peta Wilsonish.

Sadie

:>Thanks Sadie,

If I see anything weird happening, Ill decrease in that area.   So far I don't have that problem, in fact, a few areas should be worked more--especially on my left side.  What would an overworked area look like?   Would it look bulgy, lumpy, or would your eyebrows be up in the vicinity of your hairline (LOL!)?

Terri

Terrie!

<Laughing!> Awwww, you'd know it if you see it. You just won't like the look :-)

Sadie

1704

Jean and all lipstick lovers! Jul 19, 2001    

Hey Girls,

I bought a killer new lipstick yesterday from my aesthetician. (I started Obagi yesterday!) Anyway, this stuff is killer! It's a 12-hour lipstick. It's kind of like a paint, really. But it works! It DOES NOT BLEED, it does not smear, it does not come off when you eat or drink...it won't be on your teeth. And it comes with a gloss coat for over the top. I got the Nude color. It's gorgeous! I put it on at noon and it lasted really well until about 6PM. I had to touch it up a bit then because my lips are really dry and chapped. I think it would last longer on smooth lips. So for all of you who want to show off your new plumper lips, this stuff is "the bomb." It's call LipSense and the manufacturer is SeneGence. The website is www.senegence.com.

~Lynne
IP: 152.163.197.178

Hi Lynne! 

Thanks...sounds good; I will sure give it a try!

Jean

Hi Lynne

Now I have to ask you - what is in this product that you are putting on  your lips?   Does that ever worry you?  It does me, so I have started to use natural lipsticks.  My latest is by Orgins I really love it.  Of course, it doesn't last all day but I am not worried about what chemicals I am putting next to my mouth.   Just curious what is in it?

Jae

Hi Jae,

Oh, yes...I do think about what kind of chemicals I put on my body. I asked the aesthetician about the lipstick too. I was concerned about what it might do to the skin on my lips. She's a pretty natural girl herself and she assured me that it has done her no harm. In a way, I think this stuff is safer than most lipsticks since it doesn't come off when you eat, drink, etc...so you're not ingesting it. On the other hand, I'm sure some of it seeps in through the skin on your lips the same as any other brand. Don't know what's in it. But then, I don't wear lipstick every day...in fact, of late, I've barely worn any makeup at all. I use it only for special occassions. I try to strike a good balance with beauty vs. health considerations.

Lynne

Hi Lynne

Sounds interesting Lynne, although usually long lasting lipsticks dry my lips out. Does this lippie have mouisturisers in it. Thanks.

Elaine

Hi Elaine

It's hard for me to tell if it's very drying, since my lips were dry to begin with. It does have a gloss coat that is moist, but the lipstick itself is not very creamy--like I said, it's more like a "paint." I wore it again yesterday and it lasted for hours. That impressed me!

Lynne

1703

Perricone's Address? Jul 19, 2001 13:56:59 GMT   

Could someone please let me know the webiste address where I can find out information and buy the Perricone's products?  Any supplier in Canada? Thanks

Laura
IP: 209.188.80.30

H Laura

http://www.drperricone.com.    You can get his products from the Nordstroms Beauty Line and that way, if for any reason at any time you don't like them you can return them for a full refund.  I would go that way! 1-800-7BEAUTY

Jae

Hi...

You can also get it at Clinical Creations.com...and I believe, on DermaDoctor. 

Jean

1694

Alpha Lipoic test Jul 14, 2001     

Hi everyone!  I had a forgotten bottle of Perricone's Alpha Lipoic Face Firming cream in my bathroom for many months.  After checking to be sure that he does no animal testing nor uses animal products I decided to try it on half of my face.  My skin is very sensitive, has larger pores and can still break out if I am not careful.  It has been two weeks and I have to say, I can tell a difference already.  I have a huge, magnified (frightening) make up mirror and my pores one the left side are definitely smaller and the skin is smoother.  Hey, what do you know - might actually work!   I use the Hope Skin Care Line as well and they work very good together.  (love the sunscreen)

I am going to do this for one month and if I still see a big difference I am going to SLATHER this stuff on the other side of my face to catch up!  Will let you know in two more weeks.  The proof is in the pudding (mirrors this size can't lie - unfortunately).

Jae
IP: 63.25.3.203

Hi Jae

I agree with you Jae; I, also use Hope Aesthetics and I do alternate w/this particular one of Perricone's products.  I like this better than his face lift product even..  bottem line is whatever works! 

Jean

Hey Eveyone

OK, it has only been 2 1/2 weeks into my test BUT the left side of my face looks so much smoother than the right that I am cashing in my chips early and going to use this cream on both sides.  Why
wait?


It is Perricone's Alpha Lipoic Acid Face Firming cream.  It has made a very large difference in the smoothness of my skin on the left side already.   My pores are so obviously smaller on that side
that I can easily now see it.  I don't know if it will work as well on other peoples skin, if you already have tighter pores or if my skin is more condusive to being helped by this product. But whatever it is - I like it!  My skin is very sensitive, oily, can get irritated and red easily.  I don't have many wrinkles but I've never seen the texture of my skin as smooth, I am very happily surprised!! Just wanted to pass this along.  YEAH.

Jae

Hi Jae

Yeah too!  I agree.  I did not do 'the test' as you did exactly as you did...but the products are excellent...whatever works!!   I realize I have a certain lack of credibility about skin care products...since I am impressed with every one I ever used...lol...(actually I am, with a couple exceptions)...some are just far superior than others is all!  You mentioned you use the firming activator in conjunction with, or alternating with, the Hope Aesthetics?   I, too, have been doing this route for some time and I think, for whatever reason, this is good combo regimen. thx for your input!! some of the persons who have used NV Perricone did not seem too overly impressed, but I have found them highly effective...and obviously you have also.  The lip plumper is very good too...and I often use the finishing moisturizer here and there.  You don't have to purchase an entire
line of products; often just one or two items are all that you need.  In addition to flexing (which keeps the whole thing going in my opinion) skin care is right up there in importance..to go along with!    
Jean

Hi Jae

Check out www.rejuvamed.com/nvp/hml for tips on using Perricone's Alpha lipoic.  They suggested using Perricone's body cream mixed with your favorite face cream if you find the Face firming cream
too pricey (unless you have scars, then you need the high potency).  I wonder if it would be as effective?  Ive got to check this product out.  A segment on our local news reported that it was working for wrinkles; Paula Begeon however, reported in her latest book that it doesn't work. Actually saw Perricone speaking in the report, & frankly I didn't think he looked that great, but maybe it was bad lighting! 

Terri

Hi Terri


I mix it with Hope Aesthetics BHW Antioxidant cream at night.  It really doesn't matter to me what Begoun says, the only lines she really likes are her own!  Do what I did, use it on half of your face and find out for yourself.  I was shocked that it worked, on me it makes quit a difference.  Then again, it might be that my skin responds to it.  Good luck on  your own test.

Jae

Hi Terri

I am curious what you expected Dr. Perricone to look like? Seems to be a mature man who has dermatology expertise...pretty impressive credentials.....several dozen patents...done wide range of tested and documented research....the proof is in the pudding of his products.....who cares what he looks like?   I saw him too and he appears relatively normal and healthy looking to me. lol....loved your post anyway!  even 'experts' often disagree...is what keeps it all so interesting and marketable! 

Jean

Hi Jean

Sorry if I sounded so negative about Perricone's looks.  I saw his picture on line & also I believe in his book.  I didn't mean that he was ugly or unattractive on TV, he just appeared much older than his photos (forgot about air brushed photos).  I noticed top furrows etc. that I hadn't noticed in his pictures (we should send him an intro to flexing lol!).  Im thinking tight,  firm, lift skin etc. (isn't that what his products promise) and when he appeared, why he was just a good looking mature man with a few of the same facial sags I have.  I guess Im always anticipating perfection because Im a perfectionist by nature. 

Terri   

1688

AHA website..   Jul 12, 2001 

Hi all,

Just found this website in my search for AHA info...  http://www.rejuvamed.com

The site is run by an M.D. and seems pretty informative and impartial.

Nick
IP: 212.56.128.167

1687

Vivida / Nourella Jul 12, 2001     

Hi, I was in the chemist today and saw Vivida tablets and I was surprised to see that it is sold in some countries as Nourella. Here it costs 17,000 drachmaes which is about $43.I have included the site that I found for Nourella, hope this is help to someone. Here is the site.
http://www.pharmavita.co.uk/nourella/details.html    All the best to all.

Elaine
IP: 213.249.3.177

1694

Alpha Lipoic test Jul 14, 2001     

Hi everyone!  I had a forgotten bottle of Perricone's Alpha Lipoic Face Firming cream in my bathroom for many months.  After checking to be sure that he does no animal testing nor uses animal products I decided to try it on half of my face.  My skin is very sensitive, has larger pores and can still break out if I am not careful.  It has been two weeks and I have to say, I can tell a difference already.  I have a huge, magnified (frightening) make up mirror and my pores one the left side are definitely smaller and the skin is smoother.  Hey, what do you know - might actually work!   I use the Hope Skin Care Line as well and they work very good together.  (love the sunscreen)

I am going to do this for one month and if I still see a big difference I am going to SLATHER this stuff on the other side of my face to catch up!  Will let you know in two more weeks.  The proof is in the pudding (mirrors this size can't lie - unfortunately).

Jae
IP: 63.25.3.203

Hi Jae

I agree with you Jae; I, also use Hope Aesthetics and I do alternate w/this particular one of Perricone's products.  I like this better than his face lift product even..  bottem line is whatever works! 

Jean

Hey Eveyone

OK, it has only been 2 1/2 weeks into my test BUT the left side of my face looks so much smoother than the right that I am cashing in my chips early and going to use this cream on both sides.  Why
wait?


It is Perricone's Alpha Lipoic Acid Face Firming cream.  It has made a very large difference in the smoothness of my skin on the left side already.   My pores are so obviously smaller on that side
that I can easily now see it.  I don't know if it will work as well on other peoples skin, if you already have tighter pores or if my skin is more condusive to being helped by this product. But whatever it is - I like it!  My skin is very sensitive, oily, can get irritated and red easily.  I don't have many wrinkles but I've never seen the texture of my skin as smooth, I am very happily surprised!! Just wanted to pass this along.  YEAH.

Jae

Hi Jae

Yeah too!  I agree.  I did not do 'the test' as you did exactly as you did...but the products are excellent...whatever works!!   I realize I have a certain lack of credibility about skin care products...since I am impressed with every one I ever used...lol...(actually I am, with a couple exceptions)...some are just far superior than others is all!  You mentioned you use the firming activator in conjunction with, or alternating with, the Hope Aesthetics?   I, too, have been doing this route for some time and I think, for whatever reason, this is good combo regimen. thx for your input!! some of the persons who have used NV Perricone did not seem too overly impressed, but I have found them highly effective...and obviously you have also.  The lip plumper is very good too...and I often use the finishing moisturizer here and there.  You don't have to purchase an entire
line of products; often just one or two items are all that you need.  In addition to flexing (which keeps the whole thing going in my opinion) skin care is right up there in importance..to go along with!    
Jean

Hi Jae

Check out www.rejuvamed.com/nvp/hml for tips on using Perricone's Alpha lipoic.  They suggested using Perricone's body cream mixed with your favorite face cream if you find the Face firming cream
too pricey (unless you have scars, then you need the high potency).  I wonder if it would be as effective?  Ive got to check this product out.  A segment on our local news reported that it was working for wrinkles; Paula Begeon however, reported in her latest book that it doesn't work. Actually saw Perricone speaking in the report, & frankly I didn't think he looked that great, but maybe it was bad lighting! 

Terri

Hi Terri


I mix it with Hope Aesthetics BHW Antioxidant cream at night.  It really doesn't matter to me what Begoun says, the only lines she really likes are her own!  Do what I did, use it on half of your face and find out for yourself.  I was shocked that it worked, on me it makes quit a difference.  Then again, it might be that my skin responds to it.  Good luck on  your own test.

Jae

Hi Terri

I am curious what you expected Dr. Perricone to look like? Seems to be a mature man who has dermatology expertise...pretty impressive credentials.....several dozen patents...done wide range of tested and documented research....the proof is in the pudding of his products.....who cares what he looks like?   I saw him too and he appears relatively normal and healthy looking to me. lol....loved your post anyway!  even 'experts' often disagree...is what keeps it all so interesting and marketable! 

Jean

Hi Jean

Sorry if I sounded so negative about Perricone's looks.  I saw his picture on line & also I believe in his book.  I didn't mean that he was ugly or unattractive on TV, he just appeared much older than his photos (forgot about air brushed photos).  I noticed top furrows etc. that I hadn't noticed in his pictures (we should send him an intro to flexing lol!).  Im thinking tight,  firm, lift skin etc. (isn't that what his products promise) and when he appeared, why he was just a good looking mature man with a few of the same facial sags I have.  I guess Im always anticipating perfection because Im a perfectionist by nature. 

Terri   

1704

Jean and all lipstick lovers! Jul 19, 2001    

Hey Girls,

I bought a killer new lipstick yesterday from my aesthetician. (I started Obagi yesterday!) Anyway, this stuff is killer! It's a 12-hour lipstick. It's kind of like a paint, really. But it works! It DOES NOT BLEED, it does not smear, it does not come off when you eat or drink...it won't be on your teeth. And it comes with a gloss coat for over the top. I got the Nude color. It's gorgeous! I put it on at noon and it lasted really well until about 6PM. I had to touch it up a bit then because my lips are really dry and chapped. I think it would last longer on smooth lips. So for all of you who want to show off your new plumper lips, this stuff is "the bomb." It's call LipSense and the manufacturer is SeneGence. The website is www.senegence.com.

~Lynne
IP: 152.163.197.178

Hi Lynne! 

Thanks...sounds good; I will sure give it a try!

Jean

Hi Lynne

Now I have to ask you - what is in this product that you are putting on  your lips?   Does that ever worry you?  It does me, so I have started to use natural lipsticks.  My latest is by Orgins I really love it.  Of course, it doesn't last all day but I am not worried about what chemicals I am putting next to my mouth.   Just curious what is in it?

Jae

Hi Jae,

Oh, yes...I do think about what kind of chemicals I put on my body. I asked the aesthetician about the lipstick too. I was concerned about what it might do to the skin on my lips. She's a pretty natural girl herself and she assured me that it has done her no harm. In a way, I think this stuff is safer than most lipsticks since it doesn't come off when you eat, drink, etc...so you're not ingesting it. On the other hand, I'm sure some of it seeps in through the skin on your lips the same as any other brand. Don't know what's in it. But then, I don't wear lipstick every day...in fact, of late, I've barely worn any makeup at all. I use it only for special occassions. I try to strike a good balance with beauty vs. health considerations.

Lynne

Hi Lynne

Sounds interesting Lynne, although usually long lasting lipsticks dry my lips out. Does this lippie have mouisturisers in it. Thanks.

Elaine

Hi Elaine

It's hard for me to tell if it's very drying, since my lips were dry to begin with. It does have a gloss coat that is moist, but the lipstick itself is not very creamy--like I said, it's more like a "paint." I wore it again yesterday and it lasted for hours. That impressed me!

Elaine
IP: 213.249.2.152

1711

Retin A / Exercise question Jul 21, 2001   

Hi All,

I started the Obagi program the other day. The main ingredient is retin-A and my face is red, red, red and tight, tight, tight right now. (I think I overdid it some. Not used to the high-strength retin-a.) I've backed off the Retin-A for a few days, but I'm wondering about flexing during this process.
If my skin is so tight, will it tear if I flex?? It seems as though it will. Just wondering if anyone has any experience doing these two programs simultaneously. (My skin looks like hell right now!) Does anyone else's skin look really leathery from the retin-A??

Lynne
IP: 205.188.200.52

Lynn

I use Retin A Micro .1% and don't have any trouble at all. But using it in conjunction with Obagi I couldn't tell you. I know the program for Obagi goes for 12 weeks and you look like you've been through a meat grinder. I would think you might have to back off the exercises until your skin heals, same as post laser.

Jason

Hi Lynne,

Just read your post regarding Obaji.  Just so happens that I also started on Obaji--just yesterday.  My face is all pink today and I too, was wondering about doing the exercises when my face starts pealing.  I am under a PS's supervision.  Some of the before and after pictures were pretty impressive, if you can get past the 6 months of torture.  I tried copper peptides and glycolic acid for about 6 months and did see some results wanted to try something more agressive.  A friend of mine has been on Obaji for 5 months and is starting to get past the tough stage and is looking so much better.  Keep me posted on your progress.

Ellen

1710

Jae, Is 1/2 your face catching up?  Jul 21, 2001  

Hi Jae,

Is the right side looking better & catching up with the left since you started alpha lip. on it? 

Just to let you know, I agree with you about Paula Begeon.  She didn't like copper peptides but I tried it anyway and am happy with the results.  I just offered the comment about her view of
Perricone as one person's perspective, not necessarily the right one! I did say that the news reported it seemed to be working for those who had tried it. Boy I hate when I come across as being negative when I was just trying to show both sides of the argument.   Can't really give my personal opinion since I haven't tried it myself!  I think its good to hear opposing opinions so you can begin to weigh the matter for yourself, don't you agree? I always try to write BOTH opinions so I don't sound biased.   I am feed up with the products Ive purchased that don't meet up to their claims.   Im in that "Buyer Beware" mentality I guess, so I like to get a variety of opinions.   Anyway, I really am excited
its working for you because maybe its just the product I need too! 

Terri
IP: 130.101.6.73   

Terri,

It has only been a couple of days so I really don't expect to see anything for a few weeks.  What the Alpha Lipoic cream is doing for my skin is mainly tighening my pores.  Which I love, giving my skin
a smoother appearance.  Now as far as firming my skin or removing wrinkles - I really haven't noticed that as of yet.

I don't really have many wrinkles so I might not be the best judge on that and have not noticed my skin to be firmer, but then again I do exercise it.  So I am not sure if everyone will see enough results to warrant using the product, but it has been about 3 weeks for me and I am so far very optimistic.  We'll see.

Jae

Jae,

They say that nothing can change your pore size...I have heard this over and over and even read really logical reasoning why it cannot...HOWEVER, these products (which really surprises me
still) seem to actually diminish pore size?  That is not supposed to be scientifically possible (for whatever reason I have forgotten)...but it is apparent that pores can be diminished...or have the appearance of being diminished...maybe it is the smoother effect you get from the alpha lipoic benefits. at any rate, this is noticeable!   As for firmness, I definitely think so; especially eye and eyelid area...as for all else...'feels firmer'.....I cannot really tell if it actually IS.  but does tend to give one a smooth and very pleasing 'plump up'...not sure how to term it?  since you are using, you know what I mean.  skin just looks different (for the better).   we will see long-term, say after 8 or 9 mos.  

Jean

Hi Jean,

In his book "The Wrinkle Cure" he said that one of the first things that his test patients noticed was that their pores got tighter.  He said that happend in the first 2 weeks, which it did for me, too.   I was beyond shocked, didn't think it could happen either.  Seems he was shocked by those results, too since no other treatment works for that. The difference on my face is really guite obvious esp. on my nose area when I was only doing half of my face.

He says that the firmness is noticed more the longer it is used, the most dramatic after 3 months.  He says also that deep wrinkles and scars diminish around that time.   Also reduces any redness.

Hey, me the big sceptic has had my closed mind cracked open by these results.  I am still looking for all his claims to be true.  Truly, only time will tell.   Wouldn't that be great!  I'll take all the good results that I can get.

Jae

Hi Jae,

Yes, I had read that too (did not believe a word of it)..but now I am not so very sure of that!  do you suppose we are all suffering from mass hysteria?,,,lol...don't think so...seems to be a given that this does have some very nice benefits. ..as my daughter in law noticed this on her face (she uses) long before it was apparant on mine...NV Perricone is the only product that she is using that I am aware of.  

Jean

Hi Jae

You and Jean have got my interest here!  His products are WAY over my budget but if it works for wrinkles...I'm saving up!!  The copper peptides also work for tightening pores.  I have noticed the ones on my nose are smaller.  Ones on my cheeks are still very noticable.  Actually I think they are more old acne marks, ice pick ones.   Wish those would diminish!  Keep up with the updates!

Bonnie

Hi,

I have large pores too, and yes I heard you can't change pore size, but certain products seem to help the appearance as long as you keep using them.   How often do you use the product? What time of day & how much do you use?  Do you use anything else in congunction with it?

Terri

Hi Terri....

I use them every other day....either/or a.m. one day; p.m. the next, etc.  Also use Hope Aesthetics alternate days.....I also love the copper peptide products and incorporate these in one week on, one week using my other regimen.  I have not used Renova for some time because I seem to be doing just fine without it.  I also OFTEN use No Age by Christian Dior...(if you haven't tried this one, do). Perricon recommends a starting regimen of every other day...and I have just continued on in that vein. (every Sun p.m...I do not use anything at all)...I think this is a benefit.  also use sunscreen ALL THE TIME (I prefer Ti Silk above all else.)   Bottem line is there are a tremendous amount of skin care products that truly are beneficial, restorative.....but no amount of anything is going to totally reverse and correct a lifetime of serious sun damage....even chemical peels, which are great, are
temporary.....best thing is being realistic in your expectations..depending on your skin...read a very great deal..opt for agressive skin care if you have sun damage...and best of all avoid sun damage to begin with if you are in your 20's...30's and even 40's by always wearing sunscreen..then you
will never have all this photo damage to contend with at all.....when you hit the 50's and beyond! sunscreen and flexing are your best prevention and/or intervention. I am extremely pleased with the products I have opted to use, but it would have been preferable if I had used sunscreen religiously in the early years! there are so many great breakthroughs now..there is no need to ever have sun damage. 

Jean

Hi All

Isn't it funny, we are so incredibly use to the claims by skin care products to be totally false that is something actually does anything we are thrilled.

I have seen some improvement BUT according to his claims I should be seeing even more in the future.  The jury is still out, I am happy with what I have seen so far but want to see continued
improvement and THEN I'll be a true believer.

I use it in combination with Hope Aesthetics.  Which I have been using for years and really love.

Jae

1716

Skin biology and CP. Serum   Jul 23, 2001  

I just ordered this product, I would love to hear from those who have used it, what did you have for results and any problems?..thanks,

db
IP: 137.146.110.61

Hi  db

Enjoying the products.  seem to be very soothing, smoothing and glow enhancing, for lack of better description.  lol.  you will like them I am quite sure....does not appear to be overrated and I have had no problems with at all. feel good on skin, feels nice; looks nice.  If you get a chance, try the calypso oil..this is a nice product too.

Jean

Hi db

I really like the cp serum.  It has evened out my skin tone, skin looks smoother and has a glow to it now that I didn't have prior to using.  I have also stopped having breakouts (hormonal) which totally surprised me as I wasn't expecting this to happen!  I never want to be without it!  The only problem I had with this was under the eye area.  It was too drying for me but lately I have been using it under my eyes with no problem.  Can't figure that one out.

Bonnie

1719

Ti-Silk... actual name..."Ti-Silc"      Jul 26, 2001 

Hi Jean,

Where do you get your ti-silk sunblock?  I'd like to try it, too.  Thanx in advance for your response.

IP: 198.81.16.181

Hi

For the longest time I too had been searching for "Ti Silk"on the web and the hits I kept getting was for "silk"made from Thailand. The reason, I later discovered, isbecause people misspelled it! It is "Ti-Silc".

You can purchase it at www.dermadoctor.com for $22.00 for 4oz. Use the "Pick a Brand" pull down menu at the top to find it. Their phone number is 1-877-337-6237, M-F, 8am-5pm CST.

Ed

Hi

You can also purchase it at Rejuvamed.com....

Jean

1728

Sun damage question  Jul 31, 2001

Jason, Deb or anyone:  I have a qstn I have been wondering about since square one.   I had extremely minimal lines on forehead to start...now I exhibit none of these..my qstn is...my forehead
was always the first and foremost part of my face to get sunburned (in my misspent youth)...and always burned the fastest and peeled a kazillion times over a l0 yr time frame.  Why is it I have no apparant sun-damage on my forehead, yet have obvious sun-damage other areas of face?  forehead is smooth; always has been but for tiny (maybe 2 little lines) previously.  I am not complaining about this...is cool beans...but just really curious why, since this was the worst area to burn, there is no damage there? just really curious about this one. thx for response.

Jean

Jean,

The skin of the face does vary in sensitivity. The skin around the eyes has been well documented to be particularly sensitive to sun damage and is usually where people show signs first. The neck also has a tendency to show signs of sun damage earlier as well. Once the skin around the eyes have been damage it IS more difficult to correct as well. Even laser often will be only moderately successful in eliminating lines and wrinkles caused by sun damage to this area. Since you've used a wide array of products designed to repair your skin, your forehead may show more benefits of this than other, more sensitive, areas. This is my guess based on research that I've read. One way to see what areas of the skin are still showing signs of sun damage is to have your skin inspected by a black light. Many spas and some beauty salons who perform facials provide this assessment and will be able to show you how much sun damage remains to your face and its exact location.  Hope I've been able to help.

Jason

Thanks, Jason, for response.

I expect you are right; hadn't thought about reparative products at all.
Jean

1680

Retin A  Jul 10, 2001    

Hi,

I want to know about Retin-A and how it works on the skin.  How much does it smooth the skin and do you have to take it for good?

My skin is not smooth and I have small fine lines and one big vertilcle line above my top lip.  Can I get rid of that line with the combination of FlexEffect and Retin-A or with just FlexEffect?

The only reason I bring up about Retin-A, Debbie mentions it.

Thanks for the comments.

Sherri L.
IP: 63.52.169.72  

Sherri,

We have tons of info on Retin A under Traning Workshop. Just click that link at the top of any of the FlexEffect pages; then click the Skin Products link. You should also find links to other pages discussing Retin A, as well.

Jason    

1678

Creams, potions, peels etc. Jul 9, 2001   

I am new here, and I have just started the flex training.I am 53 and will be 54 this august. I have been lucky all my life to not look my age...it is a family trait...everyone I meet thinks I am 38-40....even though I still look young for my age, I am getting sags under my chin, lets say my face is sliding south, and my biggest problem being the area just under my brows...it seems to be resting on my eye lids, however I walk around with my brows raised and it helps my appearance.I have been into body building, weight training for quite awhile. I have found weight training for the body to be the fountain of youth...you can have a very young body, but unfortunately the face suffers. I have bought it all to try and keep the face up with the body...Carole Maggio, suzanne sommers facersize, facialflex, dermaltone....I have also bought every potion out there including the one that claims to erase wrinkles by eating a ton of salmon and using Dr.perricone's products...amine complex  face lift, and ester C....also bought his book...also did the Obagi blue peel, microdermabrassion..12
sessions......This is all very costly as I found out..I worked very hard at each and every one of these, I spent a lot of money using all of these....The best results I found were using the obagi products to eleminate hyperpigmintaion, age spots, skin flaps, it was drastic, and it helped to soften the fine lines..I only had fine lines to begin with so I dont know the effects on deeper lines......Obagi is dramatic as it causes the face to turn very red like a sunburn, and peels...It requires Retin-A and it is 12 of the harshest weeks I ever spent on my face, arms and hands....I had no age spots at all it took off skin flaps from my neck, and helped smooth the crinkling on my hands and neck. I did not have the obagi peel, as I was told it burns like heck. This is what I have done that really helps....like I said
the 12 week obagi program, if you can get through it and stand to be red and peel, go for it.....then to maintain it, microdermabrasion...if you are over 50 I say 12 treatments and then once a month maint....after the 12 microderm...then have a hydroxy chem peel in the dermotologist office...The best thing you can ever do is wear lots of sun screen to protect your investment...All these creams, potions and proceedures are costly, so the sun screen is very important.....So now that I have smooth skin, I need to have strong muscles underneath to keep the sags at bay...I am now starting this program of flexeffect and will keep you posted on my results...Once more, I can't stress enough that weight training is the fountain of youth and will keep your body looking young and great at any
age....one weight training program to try is Bill Phillips....it is wonderful, and it works great.... http://www.bodyforlife.com

Also I want to add that after 50 when you tend to have lost most of your estrogen you notice a lot of little changes in the skin. Something I found that helps the skin and hair is Ground Golden Flax seed...there are web sites that can give you all sorts of info on the great benifits of Golden Flax......incorporating that into your diet works wonders for the health of your hair and skin...helps keep your skin moist.

Sherrie
IP: 207.177.82.208

Hi Sherrie and welcome :-)

I do have a co-worker with beautiful skin who uses Obaji products, so I'm definitely going to keep it in mind! Dr. Perricone's "face lift" stuff (DMEA) didn't work? We've just been discussing it on the board.

As far as weight training for a young body, I couldn't agree with you more! I was an athletic teenager, but my bod looks much better now than it did then (from weight training--I'm 44). I
didn't weight train back then, I started a few years ago to combat a bout of depression and also to hopefully ward off the osteoporosis that runs on my mom's side of the family. My body shape is much improved and I'm tight! Feels great to feel and look strong! (And no I'm definitely not muscle-bound.) And it's given me a fantastic tush :-)) I don't do crunches for my abs though, I do something similar to Pilates for a long, lean look
there.


Something people should keep in mind: One doesn't have to do the weights all at one time! I do them through-out the day. I do them at the office when nobody is around, and a side benefit is that
it prevents stress build-up, headaches and tension, from sitting at the desk. The rest I do at night while watching the news. So it really doesn't take up a big chunk of my time!

I look forward to your FlexEffect progress reports :-)

Sadie

Nice to have you on board, Sherrie. 

Be sure to take pictures now and then again every 3-4 months. That way you'll be able to ascertain your progress visually.

Jason

Hi Sherrie

Thanks for your message.  Sounds like you have tried many things and have lots of wisdom to share!  Can you tell me where to find the obagi peel? What did it do for your skin? Is there a website?
Thanks again!

Trisha

1665


Sadie Re: DAME
  Jul 4, 2001 

I saw you were looking for DMAE.  Twinlab makes a liquid DMAE-H3.  Its a concentrated solution of PABA & DMAE.  Twinlab's label says DMAE by itself is alkaline and caustic therefore only the salts and esters of DMAE are used.  l0 drops=l50 mg. PABA + 100 mg. DMAE.  I purchased it at a health food store.  If Perricone recommends a l% solution, how many milligrams would that be?

Terri
IP: 130.101.2.168

Hi Terri

Oh gosh, I wish I knew!! Does 1% solution mean 1% DMAE to 99% of a carrier? What base are you going to use? Someone help us with this! :-) How much did the liquid DMAE cost?

If this stuff really works and we don't have to pay $85.00 for a tiny bottle, I'd be thrilled :-)))

Sadie

Hi Sadie

A l-2/3 Fluid oz. bottle costs $9.95 at my health food store, but I get a 20% discount lst wk. of month. Its really for internal use.   I haven't tried it yet. Was really wondering if its strong enough.  I don't know, what's a good carrier?  Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Some people are allergic to PABA.  I think it was used in sun screens at one time.So if the stuff works topically, you're getting some sun protection as well.  How much, I couldn't say. Im really busy
this week, but if I can squeeze in a call to the health food store maybe they can give me some info.

Terri,

1661

Love our animal friends Jul 3, 2001     

I do not believe in upping the demand for dead emus by making their body oils into a human skin product.  If squalane works as the company claims, why kill an animal???  There are thousands of
wonderful plant products that work incredibly on the skin.  It is easy to say that emus are not killed for their oil but the more money people can make off of their body parts the more killing that will happen, whether they are eaten or not.  Emus are not exactly a worldwide meat staple.


Look at the African elephant that is killed just for its tusks or, horrible pictures still in my mind of amputated elephants, for their feet so that they can be made into ashtrays.   Minks killed for their skin.  Turtles for their shells and so on and so on.     Where there is an extra dollar you can find dead animals.

Why choose to be a part of that?  To attempt to make you skin look better?    I won't.  Not when it is absolutely unnecessary.

Jae
IP: 63.27.22.211

1660

I'm still lurking! Jul 3, 2001     

And NOT using emu oil.  Yes the emu's are killed to get their oil.  I not only emailed Skin Biology but phoned them as well.  I for one am not putting a dead animals body parts on my face - YUCK!!

If a company sells products that are made from dead animals, what is preventing them from testing as well?  I, for one, believe in no animal testing and no animal by-products whenever possible. 


I use an incredible line of products by Hope Aesthetics.  www.hopeskincare.com.(NO animal anything)  All natural and works so well, that after a few years of using, I don't go anywhere else for
long because nothing else compares!

Jae
IP: 63.27.22.211

1659

Jae... if you are still lurking   Jul 1, 2001    

Hi, Jae.

I've been looking around Loren Pickart's website, and, I decided to give the CP Serum a try. I won't touch any of the other stuff that contains emu oil until I know how it's gotten. Did you post
here a while ago about it? I thought I saw something, but, I didn't read it. Please let me know if it was you. I asked the Skinbiology people if they did animal testing, and, they said an unequivocal "NO!". First, this doesn't appear to be true according to the studies they cite. Second, so what if emus are killed or hurt in the making of the products. This may not beimportant to others, but, it is to me. Thanks in advance

Diane
IP: 170.20.200.17

Hi Jae

Emu oil is from an ostrich type bird.  The animal is killed for the meat, not the oil.  How they
are raised or killed, Pickart never says.  Rather than discarding the oil, it has been put it to use.  By phone, skinbio has been very helpful in addressing any concerns about their products. When you receive an order, they send a list of product ingredients for everything they carry for your future reference. They recommend using squaline (plant) products if you find using emu oil offensive.

Terri

Hi Jae,

I agree with you 100% about using "cruelty free" products.  There are so many great products available now, that do NOT test on, nor harm animals in any way, that there is no reason to use the ones that do!  I am sure this is a concern for many of us, so thanks for bringing it up.

Eileen

1658

Wrinkle Supplement Jul 1, 2001     

Hi all,

I just learned of a product in Finland--it's a fish cartilage supplement--that is supposed to work on healing wrinkles from the inside out. It's called Vivida. There are reports of tests on the site. Apparently, the tests showed even better results than they'd hoped for. This is the just the type of thing I've been hoping to find. (If it's true, of course!) It does seem to me that the body ought to
be able to "heal" itself of wrinkles since we are constantly producing new skin. And it stands to reason that there would be some "product" of nature that would work with the body's system to heal damage in the lower layers of the dermis. I've written to the company to find out how to get the product in the US. I think I'm going to try it. I'll keep you all posted if you like...

Lynne
IP: 64.12.102.184

Hi Lynne

I had an experience with shark cartilage that was interesting. I went to an alternative doctor for fibroid tumors and he put me ona lot of shark cartilage to see if it would shrink the tumors before I had surgery. My skin became gorgeous. I started on the stuff in Nov and by March my skin was showing the results. Less wrinkles and sagging, no breakouts. I was getting lots of complments. I was also on an excellent diet, some other supplements.   The shark cartilage is quite expensive so I
didn't keep that up....plus just buying ,taking asnd storing all this stuff is time-consuming!(BTW- it did nothing for the fibroids. I finally had surgery for them).Hope this may give you more info!

Lynn

Hi Lynn

Funny you should mention that...I was wondering about Shark cartilage. You say it actually lessened your existing wrinkles AND helped with the sagging?? WOW. Perhaps, then, this product in Finland is the real McCoy.

Lynne

Hey LynnE!

It appeared to make a difference but I haven't tried it again because flexing is working just as well and maybe better. (It's hard to be objective about your own face!) The shark cartligae is expensive and somewhere I read something about adverse effects if you take to much over time. I can't remember more than that since I wasn't taking it anymore. I would bet that whatever is being
produced in Finland is this. I beleive the original studies for shark cartilage and cancer came from somewhere  in Europe.Let me know if you find out more info

Good luck!
Lynn

Hi Lynne:

Re: Vivida, there is a comparison of Imedeen and Vivida on this site:

http://www.healthwatcher.net/Imedeen/imdn-medline.html

http://www.theauroragrp.com/welcome.htm   This is the US Distributor for Vivida (I purchased it from there).  They are called The Aurora Group, I believe located in New Jersey or there abouts.

I still have yet to test in out....I had a bad reaction to the Glucosamine supplements, so I don't know how I will react to this....the base is shell fish.

Good luck!

All my best,
Olympia

Olympia,

Thanks. I checked out both sites. But I can't find Vivida itself on the 2nd site. They sell Viviscal and some other nail product, but no skin product as far as I can tell. How did you order your Vivida products?? I can't seem to find it on that site.

~Lynne

1657

To Becky  Re: Make-Up   Jun 30, 2001   

Tried Clinique Superfit today.  Found a great color match & my 2l yr old daughter complimented me--that's unbelievable (my worst critic).  Thanx for the tip. 

Can someone advise where I can get Laura Mercier?  I've heard & read about the concealer frequently but have never run acrossed it. 

Terri
IP: 130.101.2.122

Hi Terri

I want to try the concealer for some redness still visible at the corners of my eyes that are still visible from upper/lower eye lid surgery.   Also some blotchy pigmentation on my lower jaw probably from sun damage. 

My daughter worked for a professional model who used MAC.  She   tried some of the model's products and liked MAC's powder. When we go to Nordstrom's to buy the powder, Ill be sure to check both Mercier & MAC concealers.

I have to wear foundation & what seems to work best is after I moisturize my face, I then apply a mixture of foundation & moisturizer (mix in palms). Its like im wearing tinted moisturizer, but better because I can control the amount of coverage.       

Thanks for your help gals.

1656

Skin firming cream  Jun 29, 2001    

I started flexing back in April and am very pleased with the results.  I recently started using Jergen's Skin Firming Cream at night after I wash my face and it seems to be helping a lot as well.  I've noticed my skin isn't as loose around the eyes and cheek area.  I believe that by doing the Flex Effect Exercises and using the cream I am turning back time.  Sometimes I think it takes a combination of things to get the full effect.  I can say that Flex Effect has been a very beneficial
tool and I wouldn't advise anyone to give up....it takes TIME!  Has anyone else used any firming creams and also noticed a difference?  I think more than anything it has helped with the clarity of my skin.  I'd like to hear what the rest of you think.   Thanks Deb and everyone else!

Cindi
IP: 206.162.214.11

Hi Cindi

Hi...thx for tip!  I have had good results with firming booster serums from Hope Aesthetics also.  I have not tried a great deal of skin firm. crms...as yet...lol.  Like the ones I have tried.  Chanel has excellent one also. 

Jean

1651

Ordering Retin A   Jun 28, 2001   

Ok Retin A users,

Have any of you all ordered from the Mexico company listed in the archives? How did it go? I'm a little leery of ordering from them since they aren't in this country,etc. Can anyone share their
experience with this company.

Thanks,
Janet
IP: 216.12.50.36

Hi Janet

Janet:

I ordered some Retin-A from a Mexican company that was posted here a year or so ago.   Yes, it was cheap, around $12 or $15, however, I ordered the wrong strength (.01%) which is the
weakest.  They only make the .01% in a gel and .05% in a creme.  I was thinking I was ordering the .1% (the strongest).  The  Retin-A came in a green and white aluminum tube and smelled a little different than what we have here.  I didn't use it but maybe one or two times because I'm used to using a stronger strength.  As far as the company being reliable, they are, but it takes around 4 weeks to get the Retin-A and you don't have to send your check until the Retin-A arrives.  I haven't ordered the .05% creme yet but may consider it when I run out of the Retin-A I purchased here.

Becky

Hi Janet


I've ordered the Retin A twice now from the Mexico address.   It's $16.50 plus S&H which comes to $19.50 for 40 grams .05% cream.     It's working.  Actually, I'm not using it on my face, just on my age spots.   I noticed the biggest change in the darkest ones.  I have one on my leg that was dark brown and now it's light brown. 

The first time I ordered it I was able to pay for it after it came.   Since then they have sent an apologetic letter stating that payment would have to be sent with the order.  I got it within a week.  My sister got it within 3 days.  Hope this helps.  By the way, when they answer the phone they usually just say "Ola."  They do speak English.  Just start telling them what you want.

Rita

1600

Face lift / wrinkle product  May 30, 2001    

I sent a message earlier, but I thought you might not scroll back so Im sending it again.   Taut is the name of the product.  Ive used the masque and it does work for a temporary lift.  However, i haven't checked into the other products on the site, but they sound interesting. Cher is supposed to be using them. The man who sells them is a makeup artist and the way he started this line is interesting.  He was at a trade show and saw some people with this masque on their face.  He said they looked
liked burned victims and thought it would be perfect to use in the motion picture industry for actors in "burn" scenes.  He started using it on his clients, and after they had it on for some time he was amazed to find when they removed it that their faces were lifted and appeared younger.  Everyone wanted the product so he began mfg. the line himself. You can check it out at www.tautcosmetics.com

Terri
IP: 206.187.150.29

Hi Terri

Hi!  I tried Taut some months ago..was o.k. (seemed a little drying to my 'mature' skin...but overall nice product; I liked their Aloe you apply after).   I read someplace ? that aging is one of life's harshest realities.  The culture we live in equates the thoughts of growing, and worse 'looking' "old" inspires fear, loathing and insecurity --and a cool $2 billion was spent on anti aging products last year!  That is a lot of people trying to stop the clock it said!........true.  I am one of them!  Face
lift in a bottle is the biggest seller!  of course! and why not? who doesn't wish for it to be that simple ..I sure do!  A lot of 'liquid face lifts rely on a wheat protein for heavy lifting.  Decleor Instant Beauty Booster is one, Lancome Renergie Serum is another (soya extract helps smooth and lift the skin.  Avon has a new patented molecule that will help prevent sag!  and on it goes....Biofirm 2000....NV Perricone...tons of skin rejuvenating and firming serums...most exceptionally good; however, no single product can 'lift' your face.  Think about that one.  Just remotely consider what a cosmetic surgeon goes through to achieve a face lift! These products will enhance and improve...and that's
a good thing, but they are not going to REALLY 'lift' the face.  The best wrinkle creams (I have read) are Chanel Lift serum Extreme (see results within days)....I have not tried so don't know if true.  L'Oreal Plentitude Revitalift Anti wrinkle firming cream...(tightens). (does).  I have used essential oil combos that really do work very well also.  So we all have just tons upon tons of options!  cool beans!!   I am betting by the NEXT generation, they WILL HAVE a 'face lift in a bottle'!!but alas, as for me and my generation, must content ourselves with what is available and what is realistic.  darn! lol!  THANK GOODNESS FOR FLEXING ....or my face would be in my collarbone by now! 

Jean

1599

Copper Peptides and facial hair May 30, 2001  

I was wondering if any of the copper peptide users have experienced increased facial hair.   I had read about this on the skin bio web site research and also saw the question posted on Dr. Pickart's board.  I really really like the results that I'm achieving with the CP products.  But I have slight "peach fuzz" on my cheeks and chin, which has been a big concern and I don't want more. 

Also,  Does anyone have recommendations for removing blond, fine, facial hair? 

Thanks, Leslie
IP: 64.26.163.188

Hi Leslie

Vaniqua.....rx....ask your doctor or pharmacist

Jean

Hi Leslie

I haven't had any problems with "extra hair" and I've been using Copper peptides for the past 4-5 months. But of course that doesn't mean you won't.have looked on this site: healthnbeauty.com
go to forum and do a search for facial hair to see what any one else has had success with.

Bye Lynn

Hi Lynn

Did you notice an appreciable reduction of wrinkles with the copper peptides? I'd like to hear other peoples' results before I buy ,yet, another, product.

Thanks.
Diane

Hi Diane

I have been using other things also, so don't know exactly which to attribute results to!  But I do feel the CP's greatly improve appearance of wrinkles...that is just my personal opinion and based on nothing more than my own use of the products.I have not 'eliminated' any wrinkles any other way but
flexing....and flexing does not actually target wrinkles at all...but the lift created has a definite and continuing effect on softening and minimizing.  The skin care system I have opted for has greatly contributed to the overall picture.  What works for one may do zilch for another, so best thing is to get samples and try them if you are hesitant to invest.  There is much readily available information on these products.  If you have deep set in wrinkles w/major sun damage, chemical peels are an option...laser resurfacing.....microderm for polishing the skin...check out some of the Derm. sites for a multitude of info on these procedures.  sunscreen is your best protection against future snow-balling effect damages.

Jean

Diane,
 
I remember reading a while back on Dr. Pickart's posting site that his longtime customers have reported reduction in wrinkles after 2 years of using the copper peptides. I personally have been using the cp serum since Jan.  I had a very uneven skin tone...blothchiness and some hyperpigmentation.  Now my skin color is even.  Blotchiness is gone and the
pigmentation spots have faded alot and continue to fade.  Also some fine wrinkles have smoothed out but I can't say if that is due to the cp use or flexing.

Bonnie

Hi Bonnie

Thanks, Do you use any of the other products in conjunction with the serum?

Diane

Hi Diane

I have only used the serum so far but I plan to try some of the other products since I am so impressed with the results I have gotten.  I have never used anything like this before that has made such a huge difference in my skin.  I do use an aha product also (drugstore brand).

Bonnie

Hi Diane,

I started flexing and Retin A at about the same time, then added CP a few months later. This was all about a year and a half ago. I can tell you there is a great improvement in the lines in my face, in fact when I don't smile or frown or make goofy faces :-)the lines are very fine and minimal--barely there. What made the improvement therefore isn't so clear! Maybe I can attribute it to all three? Sorry I can't be of more help. However I heartily DO recommend the CP for skin irritation due to Retin A. BTW, I'm 44 and most people now guess that I'm around 30. People who haven't seen me in a while or who didn't know me ten years ago and see an old photo say, "HOW COME YOU LOOK BETTER NOW!!???" in surprise :-)

Sadie

Hi Leslie

Funny you should mention that! All of a sudden I started getting fine thin blond hairs on the sides of my face...actually got pretty thick!! I used NADS to get rid of it. I can't remember if it happened when I started using CP...I do know it was a sudden thing! I think I will experiment and not use the CP on the sides of my face, see what happens...

Sadie

1596

Encos for wrinkles May 29, 2001   

Hey all...did some research and found something new for wrinkles. Anyone heard of this stuff? Encos?? You can find it at www.smithnat.com. What think all??

Lynne
IP: 205.188.197.166

Hi Lynne: 

I think we are the most dedicated wrinkle patrol group on the face of the earth and beyond!!!! lol.  thx for the site; of course, I will go there....must...supper can wait.  I have my priorities!  lol.  I love all this info and input and opinions; I really do.  I think is great a group of relative strangers can
come together and offer info, facial ex strategies and variations,cosmetic products, weight lifting...and whatever.  I think everyone has valuable opinions and I love hearing them.

Jean

1593

Heard of these skincare lines?   May 27, 2001  

For fun, I did a search on face lift creams and explored several sites claiming their miracle creams.  Has anyone tried any of these or heard of them?

I'm so satisfied with everything I'm using now - but I am vulnerable to exploring these!   I found flexeffect by exploring the net this way,  and the products and the discussions with everyone have been invaluable to me reaching my goals.

Anyway,

These are a listing of the sites:
1.  alternativehealthdiscovery.com
2.  advancedlafemme.com
3.  universitymedical.com
4.  faceliftinajar.com
5.  moodles.com

There are tons of these sites, their claims are incredible!!, although I haven't heard of any of these products before.  I'm interested in hearing everyone's thoughts!!

Leslie
IP: 64.26.163.212

Hi Leslie

Hi!  aha! a kindred spirit!! (0:...I have not heard of any of ones you mentioned..closest thing I have seen to an actual 'feel' of face lift is BioFirm 2000 8-hr face lift.  Does make skin 'feel' lifted and "taut"...makes skin feel very nice, but as to actual, visible, physical 'face lift'.....naw.  I am certain
as can be if one were young and had no sag to begin with, this would work real nice.   The very best product I have used for firming qualities is Hydro-Nutritive Firming Mask from Hope Aesthetics (Hopeskincare.com).  feels like whipped cream with aroma of jasmine.....marvelous!! has shea butter, rose hip seed, vit c...don't know if this 'develops' collagen (does not claim to) but supports the collagen production process.   Really actually does 'plump' the skin.  their restorative firming
booster serum works very well also.  has Rose Mosqueta (which I have come to find out works great on mature skin), grapeseed, carrot seed, wheatgerm w/Vit E and Neroli.   These ingred. seem to be in a lot of like-products and they do work great in my opinion.All of these things help and have restorative qualities, but I am betting to get a real honest-to-goodness 'face lift' you have to get a real honest-to-goodness face lift.   I think I will settle for the 'restorative properties'.  And remember, flexing is going to create lift and fullness and this, alone, is going to vastly minimize your other imperfections!  It is fun to scout around and check out all avenues of skin care!  I am with you on
that one!  lol.

Jean

Hi Leslie/Jean

Here's a skin care line that lifts the face which Cher uses.  Ive tried the mask (Taut) and it works great for a temporary face lift.   I haven't tried the other items.  www.tautcosmetics.com.

Terri

1590

FYI glycolic peels May 26, 2001 

I found a source of unbuffered glycolic peels....on ebay, search under sellers, this seller ID is "instructor5", this is the stuff used by aesthetitians (sp)....she also has her own web page for
direct sales.

Pegwillen
IP: 137.146.110.57

Hi Pegwillen

What is her website address?

Janet

Hi Janet

www.glycolicpeel.com

1587

Copper Peptide Products May 24, 2001

could those of you who use CP products please post what brand, and briefly how it has benefited your skin?......thanks

Pegwillen
IP: 137.146.110.
34

Hi Pegwillen

I'm happily using them!  I use Skin Biology products because they're the cheapest. They have a sample kit you can get to try.I use their tri-reduction cream mixed with my retin-a about 3 times a week. It seems to keep the retin-a from drying out my skin. Then I use the copper peptide serum the other evenings. I just started with the eye cream so have yet to see how it works. So far I'm pleased with it all. I've been using them for about 4 months now.

Lynn

Hi...I use alternately...and am extremely pleased with them all the way across the board!

Jean

1586

Sunless tanners    May 24, 2001 

With all the exfoliating going on, is there any way to get a "tan" with a sunless tanner on my face? I've been trying the Neutrogena brand for the face without much luck! Has anyone succeeded with any other brand?

Sadie
IP: 205.129.112.60

Hi Sadie

Last summer I tried several different brands for sunless tanning and none of them held up under the use of Retin A and AHA products for more than a day maybe two.  If you're going to use them along with exfoliants, be prepared to do frequent applications.

Jason

1577

Topical C May 21, 2001 

Does anyone know where to get raw vitamin c (20%) or l-ascorbic acid (20%) in oil? I'm looking for a relatively pure and stableform of topical vitamin c.
Thanks.
Diane
IP: 170.20.200.15

Hi Diane

From what I understand, there are very few products that contain stable Vit. C.  Primacy 20 is supposed to be one of the few products that contain 20% ascorbic acid in stable form. Check the
post previous to this one. I gave some websites that you might be interested in.

Jason

Thanks, Jason

Diane

Jason-

It costs $95.00 at Elizabeth Arden. Is that about what you paid? Also, did you also buy the eye gel? If so, how much was that?

Thanks.
Diane

Hi Diane

I bought mine for about $65, not including shipping and handling from the http://www.giorgiomilan.com   skin care site. I've cut down on the frequency of using it because I use Retin A, too. The two in combination have a tendency to super exfoliate me. I've been using Primacy about 3-4 times a week now. I did not get the eye gel. If you did and have used it, let me know what you think of
it.

Jason

1574

Once again...something new LOL! May 20, 2001

Okay.....

This is what I've been doing for about the last three weeks and it seems to be working better than anything I've ever done before for my skin.  I gave up on the Kinerase.....was NOT impressed with it at'all.

Retin A Micro at night. Then Vit C using Primacy Serum 20 from Skinceuticals in the morning. It DOES take your skin awhile to get used to using Primacy, especially if you've been using Retin A. But let me tell you....if you can tolerate all that....it sure makes your skin look nice, nice, nice. I'm thinkin' I've finally found my "system".

Now, I had been using Retin A almost every night but with the Primacy, I do have to cut back a little more. The Vit C will cause some irritation. It may be that like Retin A, it will take a little bit of time for my skin to adjust.

Jason

Hi Jason. 

What is Retin A Micro?  Is that different than Retin A?  Where can I get Vit C and Primacy Serum 20?  You've got me wanting to try it.  One more question.  I have liquid Vit C in a bottle that I got from GNC.  Is it okay to use that straight from the bottle?

JoAnne

Hi JoAnne

I got my Primacy 20 from georgiomilan.com. Normally, you have to get primacy from a physician, but you can order from that web site without seeing one. Retin A Micro has a different carrier
and with less side effects. You will need a prescription for that one.  I'm not familiar with the Vit C from GNC. Nearly all Vit. C preparations are not stable. I have heard excellent comments about Skinceuticals Primacy. Apparantly, it is one of the extremely few Vit C products that is stable. You can go to their web site at skinceuticals.com   and read about it.

Jason

1573

P&R vs. Procyte May 20, 2001

Hi All,

My aesthetician said that if I was going to use CPs to use the Procyte CPs. But she doesn't know anything about P R. Is P&R just as good? It's much less expensive, but is it as effective?? Does anyone know??
Lynne
IP: 152.163.197.47

Hi Lynne...

yes I feel it is.  Dr.Pickard helped found the Procyte Corp....if all the lit they sent me is correct...and I believe this info can be found on their website.  In my opinion, the largest difference is in the packaging.   Procyte products are being widely distributed to Derm offices and cosmetic clinics...by Rx only.  Availability...or lack of immediate availability pushes up the prices, of course.  Is a wanted
commodity.  They are both excellent products in my opinion, but if I can achieve same results for less and immediate availability.........(now, I have used Blue Copper...and still do here and there, p.m.'s...it is very pricey, but also good product).

Jean

1572

Renova with P & R May 20, 2001

Hi,  I just began using CP serum during the day, and Glycolic-8 with P&R at night.  I thought I remember reading that some of the Flexers use Renova or Retin-A at night and then apply P&R on
top of it at night?  Is it best to combine them or use each one separately, on an alternating basis.  Skinbio research claims that copper peptides are more effective then Retinoids.  Will the copper peptides interfere with the effectiveness of the Renova or the Renova interfere with the effectiveness of the copper peptides, or does the combination at the same time enhance one's results.  Or should they be used alternately. 

Thanks in advance for your advice
Leslie
IP: 64.26.139.5

Hi Leslie

Hi!  I still have not tried using the 2 together ..I still alternate..Renova apprx 2 or 3 x a wk. now.  I believe some of the flexers have used it together with good results...but I haven't tried it yet.

Jean

1561

Products to tighten May 14, 2001   

Hi...I have used Perricone. I liked them, overall; however I have found the products from Hope Aesthetics really do have a 'firming effect'..plus best way of all to firm up and tighten is with exercise and massage and drink LOTS AND LOTS OF WATER...just my opinion and my personal observation for my own results.  How much 'firming' you are going to achieve with anything depends on how much slack and sag you now possess..took long long time to get it that way; is not going to suddenly stretch taut as a guitar chord.  Things help and you will see improvement...but if you expect 100% return of elasticity and tightness, it will depend greatly on age and extent of sun damage or other damage already in place.  I am extremely happy with what has transpired on my own face, but I am also elated with even minimal results!  so keep on keepin on....try stuff out.....peels should only be done at reasonable intervals...say every 2 or 3 wks for a series (usually 6)..starting with a very
low percentage...if you opt to go that route.  (I have had excellent results with them...but not for everyone I am sure). And if you have peels you must always wear a broad spectrum sunscreen for rest of your days (we should anyway!)  Taking care of skin is truly not all about looking good, it is about the health of your skin, which can only show benefits if the cells are healthy to start with...and new cell growth is encouraged..that is why I feel exercise is so vital to health of your skin...along with reasonable and researched skin care.  (AND I STILL LOVE RENOVA, USED WISELY AND ALTERNATELY).

Jean

Hi Jean,

was wondering what products you ordered from Hope and what you think at this time.  Besides the BHW Antioxidant I have been using the eye gel and am very impressed.  Unfortunately I wanted to
try Angels Guard, the zinc, titanium sunscreen but they are out of it while waiting to harvest some plants in the next month that are needed for the essential oils.  Did you get to order that? 

I would like to try the CO Q cream, the sample is really good.

Jae 

Hi Jae

I am using the BHW cream...Angels Kiss...Bellisima (pm)..alternating the boosters...Restor. Firm. and the Serum di hope.....really like these products immensely.  Also the eye cream and I am impressed too!  Also using the Intensive Hydrating booster w/ moisturizer a.m.  I use Angel's Kiss around lip lines...really really softening.  I have ordered the cleanser (the gentle one) and the botanical toner.  I want to try the new one coming May 25th.  Also would like to try the COQ cream too.  I have been using these exclusively 2 wks on.....then using copper peptides one wk in between...no reason; just way I am doing it.  The results have been where I think I will just keep
doing it this way!  I notice humongous difference on body skin with this 'method'!   I'm happy with it.  I used products with EO's back last summer for apprx 6 or 7 mos.....but NOTHING like the benefits these seem to offer.  I have been lucky in that my skin seems to 'respond' to everything..lol....but it REALLY responds to this regimen...for whatever reasons.  I really don't care for whatever reasons...just very pleased!  Of course, flexing, and encouraging blood flow keeps the whole ball of wax going!...and improving.  I think I actually look better in my late 50's than I ever did in my early 50's..that is way good enough for me!  I like the fact that part of the proceeds from
these products (Hope) go for cancer research.  And that they are developed in a cosmeceutical lab and patented.  I like this factor!

Jean

Hi Jean

I know that you are beautiful, inside and out.

I, too, have used EOs for a long time but the combo of Hopes products really work for me also.  I was always trying to figure out what oils and creams to use.  I am a big believer in the powers
of shea butter, it is so nice to have an all natural product that takes the quess work out of it for me.

I am also using the papaya face mask, love it.  Think I will try some of the products that you are using.  What I love the most in any product is seeing the long term results.  Where skin continues
to improve.  Thanks for all you info

Jae

1559

The wrinkle cure May 13, 2001   

Hi All,
Just wondering if anyone else has tried the Perricone products, and if so, what kind of results they had. I just started using the products the other night, so of course I haven't seen any results yet. (Wouldn't it be great if you could just use a product once and all your wrinkles would hyper-space??)Anyway, I found his book quite inspiring, so I decided to try the lip plumper, his undereye therapy kit and the evening facial emollient with alpha lipoic acid. I'm planning to alternate this with Retin-A at night and use my copper peptide stuff during the day. (I figure I'll have all my bases covered this way.) So...just wondering if anyone has been able to eliminate any wrinkles using the alpha lipoic acid products in particular.I'm hoping this will work.

Lynne
IP: 152.163.197.181

Hi Lynne

I haven't tried any of Perricone's products, but I was interested if the products you purchased has the DMAE in it?  He said it actually has a face lifting (tightening) effect on the skin, and I was curious if any product really could do that, especially since he said you can see a difference immediately.  I would assume the lip plumper must have it in it.  Did you notice a difference in your lips immediately after use?I don't know if DMAE is readily absorbed into the skin, but I just bought some liquid from the health food store to give it a try. I also got alpha lipoic to take internally in pill form and I was wondering if I could crush & mix it with the DMAE to see what would happen.  One last thing, Paula Begeon's (the cosmetic policewoman!) latest book did not give much hope concerning Perricone's products, although she did say his credentials were impressive.  She wasn't convinced they'd do what they said; she also reported that the only benefit for CP was for wounds/burns--not aging.  I just ordered the CP #3, Im going to evaluate it for myself. I understand you're having good results with it.

Oh, one more thing.  If Perricone's products you purchased have the Ester C in it, I was told by Skinbio not to use the CP for at least l2 hrs, as CP kills the C.  It sounds like you're already
aware of that, but I thought Id mention it for anyone who might be interested.   

Terrie

Hi All

i just got back from getting another crystal peel and the woman who does my peels said that Perricone's products don't really work. But then again, she said that she tried them for 3 weeks and that she didn't believe him because he said that his stuff would cure wrinkles in 2 weeks. He didn't say that...so I'm not sure if she's correct anyway. Since I already bought the stuff, I'm going to continue to try it. She did say that Retin A and Vitamin C products do work, but that nothing will really rid me of my "character lines"--those caused by expressions. I didn't order anything with the DMAE, so I can't comment on that. The lip plumper I got has the alpha lipoic acid in it. No noticeable difference yet--but I've only used it for a couple of days. As for CPs, the woman also said that this is primarily a wound-healer...still, it's good for the skin. My face definitely looks
healthier since I started using them. Nicer tone all-around.The wrinkle quest continues...I think I'm going to get a blue peel in the fall to try to lessen some of my lines.. This woman also said that exercises don't work either, because she tried some for her double-chin. I don't think she tried Flex Effects..and she probably didn't try them for very long. So, again, I'm not going to go strictly by what she says...
Lynne

Hi All

Just a note of caution, it sounds like you are doing an awful lot to your skin all at the same time.  When using Retin A's or Renova doctors warn that you should be extremely careful doing additional

peels.  Best to take your time.  Remember that your facial skin is very sensitive.  My facialist (works on many of the "most beautiful" women in show business) told me once that she felt that women are thining their skin too much with too many peeling procedures.  What we really want to have is THICKER skin.  Just her opinion but one I tend to listen to since she sees skin up VERY close!!   Besides which, her skin is unbelievable and she in her 50's.   Looks 30.

Just a thought . . . Jean works for a dermatologist, she might have some more info.

Jae

Hi Jae

Thanx for the warning.  Does your facialist think there is any benefit in flexing?  Did you find out what products she uses since she looks so great????

Terri

Hi Terri

There is NO question that exercising your skin will benefit it.   She has her own line of skincare, I think she sells on HSN and on the web.  I will let you know!  It is made of all natural ingredients, very much along the lines of Hope Skin Care.  They are very similiar.

Jae

Hi All

Just read those messages on wrinkle cure etc. and concerned about thinning my skin to much. Retin A or equivilant 0.05g 4 times a week usually, Aqua Glycolic body lotion on face,and one time a
month for 5 months a micro crystal facial in conjunction with cool touch laser once every month for five months. Is this to much. Thanks.

Elaine

Hi Elaine

Sorry, I can't answer your question, but I'd like to know how you like the crystal "peels"? What kind of results have you had?

Sadie

Hi Sadie

Hello, I have only had 2 and my face looks cleaner, I hace not noticed any difference in wrinkles or fine lines, but I think the cool touch treatment is ment to do that over a period of time by making one produce colagen.The clinician said, before any treatment, that my skin was very clear and clean, and that is due to the Airol (Retin A). I personally was just wanting the Laser treatment but had to take
the full course. Hope it helps.

Elaine

1550

Some good news May 10, 2001     

Hey all,
No real effects from the exercises yet, but I think that the CP products I began using a couple weeks ago are helping my skin tone. It is much more even looking. I guess it's healing some of the old sun damage. My skin just looks much more even and clear. That's something. And something is much better than nothing, eh?
Lynne
IP: 64.12.102.179

1544

Jean/anyone May 8, 2001    

Have you ever heard of a face cream called "Obajee" and if so, what is it for? A co-worker uses it and her skin looks fantastic!

Sadie
IP: 205.129.112.152

Hi Sadie: 

Obagi Nu-Derm is a skin health restoration system.  Emphasis on correction and stimulation of the skin.  For both men and women.  The Nu-Derm syst is supposedly only prescribed by a physician but you can buy Obagi skin care products and starter kits.  hold on, I forgot to write down the link...get right back atcha!

The site is www.greatskin.com .......or Obagi Discount Store & Support (www.center4skin.com).   I am sure there are others, but these two seem to be informative.

Jean

Hi Jean

Thanks! I knew I could count on you :-))

Sadie

1542

Lines, lines, everywhere lines.  May 7, 2001

All,
I'm slightly alarmed. The past two mornings I've awakened to find that one line under each of my eyes is deeper and bright red. (It's not from the exercises, I haven't been doing the lower lid exercises because I can't quite get a handle on them, and I'm not sure if they're going to help my situation.) It could be from the Retin A I just started using or the copper peptides. (I'm using them both.) My question is: Does this signal some kind of healing of the area, or is it simply getting
worse for some reason?? Has anyone else seen this deepening and reddening in the mornings?
Could it be that the products are making the area puffier, causing the lines to deepen as they stretch over the area?? What think all??
Lynne
IP: 64.12.102.157

Hi Lynne

I was using Renova and was getting redness on my cheeks and chin.  I called the nurse at Renova and she told me not to mix other products with the Renova.  Hope this helps

Ann

Hi Lynne,

From my experience Retin A can be very irritating especially at first.  It usually takes a few months for skin to stop peeling and turning red, in my case it never stopped and I have used it on and off for over 15 years.  I don't know what strength you are on, hopefully the lowest one to start but start slowly.  Start every other day and only use a very small amount.  For wrinkles, I switched to Renova because it is more gentle.
 

Jean will know more but in my opinion I would really slow it all down and maybe a call to your doctor would help.  I would stop for a few days and let the redness go away. Then use just Retin A for awhile to see what happens then start the Copper Peptides on the off days.  Our skin is much more sensitive then we sometimes think! 

Jae 

Lynne,

You might want to read post #1449 on the discussion board.   What strength RetinA are you using?  What CP product are you using?  Its typical to have reddness & peeling with retina.  Also the wrinkles do appear worse cuz the area is drier. I know that from experience.  The healed incision at the corner of my eye where I had the cosmetic surgery (which is normally invisible) would get beet red if I use it every nite too. It looked like a big old red crows foot!  I just used it every 3rd nite & moisturized the area.  Its funny that now I can use the Retin A every nite under the eyes, but I can't seem to adjust to it around the mouth area!

Im not using the CP, but I read on Skinbio site that the P&R #3 causes problems for some people.  If you check the testimonials on Skinbio you'll read that several had to switch to a different P&R, or some hung in there and used it less frequently in the beginning.  You can post a message to the doc or call Skinbio too.  I responded to your question about my cosmetic surgery.  Backtrack on the message board to Under Eye Solicitation if you want to read my response.

Bye All,
Terri

All:

Ugh! It's definitely looking worse. I look awful today. It's all puffy and the lines are bright red. I'm going to back off the area for a few days and just use some moisturizer at night. SIGH! I wish I really knew what to do here... I guess I'll just have to experiment and hang tight. Thanks for all of the info and opinions.

Lynne

1536

What works for me  May 4, 2001    

OK, here go all my "secrets"!  (this tape will self destruct in 15 seconds)   I try to keep it simple because if I don't I know that I will not keep it up!   I am way tooooooo lazy.


I do Deb's basic exercises 3 days a week and do about 12 minutes of the Face Master 3 days.  So I total about 12 - 15 minutes a day of exercises.   After trail and error I know for my face what ones to do and what ones NOT to do.   Just as important.

Sundays I don't do anything to my face or skin - period.  It is a day of resting my skin from any outside stimulus.


Everyday, rain or shine I use a natural sunscreen.  I use either Aubrey Organics or Alba Botanica.  I insist on titanium dioxide or zinc.   They are true sun blocks, block both types of rays.

Morning no creams except around eyes.  Just wash, sunscreen.  Do face exercise.   Make-up.

90% of what I put on my face is natural, no animal products or harsh ingredients or fragrance.


Night.  Wash, use natural oil soap or Aubrey Green Tea wash.   While in bath apply small amount of organic extra virgin olive oil to face and neck.  Let stay on 20 minutes or so, wipe any excess off. 
Splash face and neck with warm water, leave skin moist, apply the Hope Skin Care BHW Antioxidant Cream. (this would be the time to add any addition Hope creams or oils, I don't but you could). Soaks in immediately!  Then just around eyes, mouth and sometimes neck small amount of Renova. 


Last but not least, OK no laughing this WORKS, I apply a very small piece of clear surgical tape to any sleep lines that I get.  This as actually eliminated deep sleep lines from my face.  The tape is
clear so you really can't see it.  Otherwise I think my husband would have a hard time keeping a straight face.  The night time process takes just minutes.

Two to three times a week while working out at home, I apply either a plain yogurt mask, Green Tea mask from Aubrey or one from Hope.  I really believe in the restoration power of masks!!  Green tea and papaya are both wonderful ingredients.  The yogurt is amazing.

That's it!   (except of course shaving my heavy beard and trimming any excess ear hair)   Kidding, of course!   The results of this for me have been really wonderful and the response has been encouraging and surprising!!!  Coming from the least expected people!  Good skin takes time, you have to make up the years when you weren't doing a good job.  Everyone’s skin is different, so we
all find the best for us.   The point is to take care of ourselves, we ARE worth it!  (PS, by the way I am 45)

Jae
IP: 38.29.80.206

Hi Jae.

Does this tape stay put all night?  I'm asking because I bought something at the store one time that you put on wrinkles before you go to bed and the next day I woke up with one hanging off my lip and the other one stuck to my hand...lol.  Where can you buy surgical tape?

JoAnne
IP: 152.163.206.209

Hi JoAnne

Boy, I feel like I am bogarting this board today . . .!  Don't worry, I don't have MUCH more to say!  (oh ya?)

You can buy the tape at any drugstore.  It is made by Johnson & Johnson.  It is a clear surgical tape and it breathes.  It is about 1/2" wide.  The container is white with a red tape cutter.  I literally use only about 1/4" on each of a few spots.  It lasts all night and comes off easily the next day.  Just be sure that in those places you wipe off any cream or oil before you apply it.  You can then just dab some AHA or Renova on those areas during the day if you want to treat those wrinkles.

Sound easy?  Yup.
Jae

Hi Jae

Do you put the surgical tape on at night?

Ann

Hi Jae,

Thank you for sharing your personal skin care routine with us.  You are such a generous, inspiring contributor to this board.  Congratulations again on your fabulous results!  I hope to get "there" soon!

Ellen

Hi Ellen

You are very kind.  I truly do believe that we get BETTER.  I have a friend who is 48 and she has NEVER ever looked better or been more HEALTHY (that is the key word) and I have known her for over 18 years.  It was all due to exercise, eating and gentle, simple skin care.  Another friend is in her mid 50's and she is a knock out and I'm not kidding!!!  She, too strives to be in good health.

We can all inspire each other to be our "more" not our "less"!

Jae

1531

Emu Oil and animal protection May 3, 2001

Hi, just wanted to remind anyone who is concerned with using animal products in cosmetics or are against animal testing that emu oil is the oil of the emu.  So essentially you are putting a dead animal

oil on your skin.  Personally, I could not do that.  It really grosses me out! Besides which I don't believe in using animals in that fashion.   But I do know that we all have different sensibilities and respect that.

I try my hardest to only use animal free products with no animal testing.  I know that Renova was probably tested on animals 20 years ago or so.  Things have changed remarkably since then and
most reputable companies really try to avoid any testing! 

Just wanted to remind those who feel as I do about this subject to check product ingredients and manufacturing processes!  Thanks! 

Jae
IP: 38.29.80.182

To Jae

awhile back on Loren Pickard's web site she addressed the animal testing qstn. I believe.  I think, but not certain, that Squalene is similar/same thing; does anyone know?  If an animal was killed just for it's oil, I think I would have serious reservations using it, but from what I have read, this does not seem to be the case w/emu oil..but I could certainly be misinformed about it.  Would not be the first time, and sure not the last either! lol.  The oil is totally softening..no matter where you put it, skin, hair, eyebrows....lip lines.   Over CP serum it is fantastic.  I sure hope I am not misled and misinformed because I truly love this product....but appreciate the information.

Jean

Hi Jean,

From what I have found out Emus are large, playful birds that grow up to 6 feet, much like the ostrich.  They do not fly and are the national bird of Australia.  They are eaten by some people.

I do not think that the bird is killed only for oil, but I do think that as the demand for oil grows, so does the death rate for these birds.

Didn't mean to start a discussion on the pros and cons of animal products, just want people who don't desire animal products to be aware of what the oil is that they are applying to their faces. 
Believe it or not, I actually apply olive oil to my skin every night for about 20 minutes.   It is packed full of nutrients.  Funny, I just received a very expensive catalog for an exclusive facial treatment.  Their main ingredient is an oil (none other than extra virgin olive oil).  My"exclusive" treament comes from the grocery store.  Call me cheap!

Jae 

Hi Jae!

Real glad to get any info about anything that I can...really did appreciate your input and awareness.  You are probably right on target with your Olive Oil!  Sophia Loren uses Olive Oil from what I have read...years.   I REST MY CASE.  Sure has worked for her!!!!! lol.  And I have read this in other
beauty articles as well....and one really great thing.  IT IS AFFORDABLE  AND ACCESSABLE!!

Jean 

Hi Jae

I'm glad you mentioned that you use olive oil.  I have just started applying olive oil to my face at night as well.  But have no idea what it is supposed to do for the skin!  But it's in my kitchen and being on a tight budget right now I thought what the hey..can't hurt to try!  I have only used this for three nights so far.  Can you please enlighten me as to the benefits??  Thanks Jae!!

Bonnie
IP: 63.252.151.52

Hi Bonnie

Olive oil is extremely rich in antioxidants.  It is also very penetrating.  Here is the link regarding olive oil and skin cancer - http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_743000/743514.stm. See also my reply to Jean a few posts back!

I really do think that when you combine good, gentle, effective skin care with facial exercises the results are fantastic.

I really have proven that in the last year with my own skin tone.  Don't want to be a bragger, really -  BUT I am really getting wonderful compliments lately. Surprised me, almost too good to believe.  (OK, I even got asked out be a man over 20 years younger, husband loved that one . . .)

Hey, I am just hoping that it is true, would love to be getter better and better. Let's all keep exercising and taking care of ourselves.  What a great encouragment Deb's board is! 

Hi Jae,

Thanks for the olive oil info.  I had no idea it is so beneficial.  I will definetely continue using!What a great compliment to be asked out by a man so much younger!  You know you have to be doing something right!!  Very cool! I am truly grateful for coming across Deb's site one year ago!
This program is truly the fountain of youth. And I have learned so much about skincare here!  Its so great that we don't have to resign ourselves to looking old when inside we still feel young!

Bonnie

Hey Jae!

Hi.  I have been getting 'looks' and come-ons in the elevator lately....I don't know if is because I look good or is the box of doughnuts I am always taking to work!  But, really, doesn't that
make you feel just extra good!! when someone compliments or obviously 'notices'.  We are never too old to appreciate that!  I think all in all, this program really speaks for itself..not to be overly vain (though that is a good motivator)..but because it is just plain nice and makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

Jean

Hi Jean,

I was very intrigued to read, last week, scientific studies that now show that virgin olive oil could very well be a preventative for skin cancer and sun damage.  They are finding out more and more of it's healing properties.  No wonder it has been used for thousands of years!!  Here's to simplicity!!

After you take a bath or shower at night apply a thin layer over your face.  Wait about 15- 20 minutes and wipe off the excess.  Sometimes it has all soaked in!  You can then put on your nightime
cream.  (I keep a very small amount of organic oil in a dark glass bottle, the rest I leave in the refrig until I need it.)   Love the easy stuff!!

Thanks, too, for all of your insight.  I really enjoy reading your posts!!!!   Please keep them coming.

Jae

Another thing about the olive oil

I've been adding EO's to mine to add a really nice fragrance!! I have about 5 different plastic bottles of differently scented olive oil :-)

Sadie
IP: 205.129.113.169

1529

To Jean: Emu Oil  May 3, 2001     

I know you purchased yours from Skin Bio.  I was in a local health food store and found pure Emu Oil made by Nature's Health Connection www.nhc123.com.   Haven't check out the site yet.  But
I was wondering what your's looks & feels like.  Mine came in an amber bottle and it looks milky white until you put some on your finger, then its colorless/odorless.   It absorbs quickly & isn't
a bit greasy--is yours like that?  It feels really great on the skin & it feels soft.  Put a drop or two in my long hair & it took away the frizz dry look immediately--but didn't make it greasy.  I like it a lot--thanx for telling me about it.

Terri 
IP: 199.183.107.196

Hi. Terri

Yes, mine was the same as yours.

Jean 

1526

K-Derm May 2, 2001   

hi im thinking of getting k derm, for darkness under the eye, i also want somthing  for helping puffiness if there is a cream that really helps at all with that, i was gonna get the cellux cream from the same site as the k derm, but im gonna be using copper peps, so i dont want  to use the c ceelux, so
what was that web site you guys were talking about ,where some nurse who was sick and made this product to help her skin from all the assaults of her illness? does that site have somthing for the pufiness that doesnt use vitamin c and have you found it to at all help with puffiness under the eye?

Kevin
IP: 66.27.164.69

Hi Kevin

Hi!  I believe the site you are referring to is hopeskincare.com  It is Hope Aesthetics site.  They do have some beneficial eye therapy.  There are a kazillion eye creams out there...ask for some samples here and there and everywhere.  Aubrey Organics has some good ones as well...and skin bio site has excellent one.  Hope it's a start and a help! (Emu Oil is an extremely effective moisturizer, for deeper seated problems, you might look into products for eye area containing retinol) or use one of the A prescription treatments (retin A or renova)....but read the instruction pamphlets!  For this area I believe it is beneficial to pay a little more for whatever you decide to use...will last a good while and you want something effective..and good for your skin.

Jean

Hi Kevin 

Interesting info on eye wrinkles &  eye puffiness/bags/circles etc. in the book "The Wrinkle Cure" by Nicholas Perricone--you can find it at the library. His web site isn't as good but you could check it out at www.nvperriconemd.com.  His products sound like real miracles.  In the back of his book you can find out where you can purchase his products & for other products he recommends.  He says Vit. C (L-ascorbic acid), which is the Cellex C, causes an inflammatory response due to it being an acid; but Vit. C Ester (ascorbyl palmitate) does not cause inflammation.  He says by a mix of Vit. C Ester with Alpha Lipoic acid you can rid yourself of lines, bags & wrinkles in the eye area--as well as the rest of your face/neck.

Terri

1519

Jean   Apr 27, 2001   

hi, i read a post of yours a while back, you said you were using cp, with emu oils layerd and it was very gentle combo, do you think that helps with fine lines? im really trying to find and alternative to sheding and irritating my skin under my eyes, from retin a. im weary about the cp ,because ive got it
in my mind that the only way to truly help wrinkles is to make the skin shed off like from retin a, what do you think

Kevin
IP: 66.27.164.69

Hi Kevin

effects on the epidermis, the papillary dermis,and the hair follicles.  I read in our office that treatment of photaged human skin with 25% AHA (glycolic, lactic, or citric acid) resulted in an approx 25% increase in epidermal thickness...improved quality of elastic fibers and increased density of collagen.   Check with a dermatologist or check some of the great websites available.   There seem to be many options available to us.  I truly think a lot of skin care success comes from within...i.e. drinking lots
of water, eating foods that 'feed' the skin, avoidance of sun, sunblocks, exercise, a good multi-vitamin splmt., not smoking (does a lot of skin damage..take it from me, it does)..lots of
factors....the health of your cells! for one.  And we do have a lot of options out there....just scout around, research, read, ask the professionals.  But, in a nutshell, yes, I think exfolliation is a key factor.  (just my opinion as I have sun damage and age and had a long-time smoking habit...so several little snags to deal with!) lol.  You can over-exfoliate, so do your research there...and actually, sounds corny, but trust your instincts.

PS...

I forgot to answ your qstn about cps and emu oil..I find that this is so super sensitive and gentle..I really love this combo.  I do alternate my fav products, but this one I seem to use more frequently, as I love the feel and way it makes my skin look.  I do not know how long it would take to reduce fine lines...it does smooth wonderfully...as for deeper wrinkles, I imagine would take a long time and other options might work in conjunction with faster and more effectively.  I know flexing really assists with wrinkles...there has been a lot of doubt about the validity of that...but it certainly does; however! very deep lines and wrinkles ARE going to need an extra oomph of attack...in conjunction with all other measures. (cosmetic procedures).  peels or micros..or whatever.  The health of the
skin is as important as the look of our skin..and I feel that emu oil and cps have a very positive impact on the 'wellness' of my skin, as well as the appearance.  If you do try cp's, they do suggest you use on an every other day basis until your skin acclimates.   E mail the people at Skin Biology (on the ask the prof board)...they are extremely helpful and can assist you with recommendationsand they are totally up front about what they do and do not recommend for specific skin types and problems.

Jean

1518

Who is right / who is wrong? Apr 26, 2001    

I have checked out other websites and have now come across two that say facial exercise will cause more wrinkles to develop.  It is very confusing out there.  I do worry when I have to pull on my skin to do the exercises.  And it is pretty hard not to pull the skin when doing them.  I am just a beginner and am sure I will relax some when I start seeing results.  And should we be doing them everyday.  When you work the muscles of the body you are supposed to give them a rest day.  Does that not apply to the face as well.  I had a blepharaplasy done about six years ago and my right lower lid droops just slightly.  I am worried about doing the lower lid exercise that is on the video for fear
of it making it worse.  I feel like I am pulling the skin too much, and I do not really feel any muscle working while I am doing it.  I think I am doing it properly but maybe not.  Sorry for the long message.

Bev
IP: 149.99.97.138

Hi Bev

ok this is my theory based on what people have said, and seeing my situation, these exercises especially around the eyes decrease puffiness, you may see an increase in the wrinkles only because the skin that was puffy can now be deflated leaving a little extra skin , like a bleph can cause people to say they see more wrinkles, i do have faith that the skin will tighten up sort of like when  you lose weight and it takes time to have the skin to adjust to the new you, again ireally believe this is what happens in alot of situations, i dont have severe wrinkles and im confident it will tighten, but if you
have a lot of loos skin and deep wrinkles, know that a bleph would cause the exact same problem, its not the exercise, its the reducing of puffiness from the exercise or bleph or loosing weight. Ps guys i stoped the retin a for a week and my skin is back to normal, so i need to find out if maybe  copper peps and aha would be my answer, remember i only have fine lines not really noticable, so do you think the cp and aha could make a difference without the sheding irritation and wrinkled apperaence that retin a gives me.

Kevin

Hi Kevin

I've been reading your posts and worries and sympathize. Its true that flexing does manipulate some skin and it works more speedily on persons with good skin elasticity such as is my case, thus the
reason why Deb and all the trainers strongly recommend good skin care in conjunction with the exercises. Dr. Pickart answered your post and says Kinerase and copper peptides also work well
together. I do hope you're seeing a dermatologist since you've got such sensitive skin. AHA's are just as irritating if not more so on the eyelids so really think twice about that.  Like most others who
responded on this board, skincare is such a trial and error endeavor. Its been so for me, so do your research, use the search engines on the internet and read up as much as you can about the products that interest you. Jason and Olympia also encourage looking up Medline to look for scientific research backing up skin care products.
   
As a a final adjunct,  for those with sensitive skin, I've discovered a terrific AHA called "Refinity" which is lactic acid based and has strontium nitrate which greatly lessens the irritation. A little pricey but well worth it.I can't believe I tolerated this 15% AHA in conjunction with Renova .025% cream!
Zapped my blackheads in a couple of days.(alternating it). And Kevin, do not try this product on your eyelids...better to see your Dermatologist first! Good luck to all!

Teresa

Hi Teresa

hey thanks for the reply, still lost, i dont think my skin under my eyes is that sensitive comparably speaking, ive talked to alot of people who have the same reaction to retin a, and by the way i tried, an aha and it was not even close to irritating my skin the way retin a has. So again my question is does copper peps by them self cause sheding and kill the top layer of skin promoting new layers to heal the old skin? i know this is how retin a works, does copper peps do the same thing, and if not   how can it be effective in actually getting rid of wrinkles you already have? AGAIN im trying to
figure out how copper peps and kinerase do any thing more than just really hydrate the skin helping prevent new wrinkles, but not actually getting rid of wrinkles you already have the way retin a does, could any one please answer.

Kevin

Hi Kevin

First off, I would recommend that under Training Workshop you read some of the posts under EYES. You shouldn't just be pulling on the skin when you do the exercises. If you were, I would
suspect that some damage could occur. But when you're working the muscle, you're increasing the blood flow to the area. I've been doing the exercises over two years and haven't put a single line
on my face.  Additionally, the massage is also excellent for challenging the skin. Most of the massage techniques Deb describes are actually done in Spas. A friend of mine in cosmetology was quite impressed with her system of massage and plans to incorporate it into the facials program.

Regardless, you can get some excellent tips for doing lower lid lift under the afore mentioned site.

PS...

All the info out there seems to indicate that CP and AHAs do help. If Retin A is too strong, I would certainly investigate them. Just remember to wear a good sun block, especially when using AHAs.

Jason

1516

Peeling problems with Retin A Apr 26, 2001    

Hi Kevin,

Since I am not experiencing half the problems with peeling that youre encountering with RetinA around the eyes as you seem to be having I decided to check my tube.  It dawned on me that my

plastic sergeon prescribed RetinA Micro .0l%.  The micro is a time-released version that eliminates the severe peeling.  Then I remembered he said it was better than Renova because its a higher potency, yet does not cause the severe peeling problems. It comes in 2 sizes, the tube is white & purple, and it looks like a white cream when you apply it. Hope this info will help correct your problem if you wish to continue with a RetinA product.

Terri
IP: 199.182.98.107

Hi Terri

Retin A Micro caused my skin to peel, turn red and was too strong.  It is stronger than Renova and for some it is still too harsh.   Great that it is working for you.

Jae

Hi Jae

Well Im learning something new every day on this post.  I have to admit that Im having peeling on the face (mouth & nose area in the creases) with the micro but I use a fairly strong l5% Vit C with hydroxy in the morning too.  However I don't use the C around the eyes, just the micro RetinA, & Im not peeling much or having severe reaction there.  I assumed the peeling on my face is due to the combo of the two products--not the micro itself.  Im just wondering were you using anything in congunction with the mico that may have caused you to think the micro was too harsh when it was actually a combo of products?

Terri

Hi Terri

No, I was only using the Micro at night.  For almost a year.   In fact, after I stopped people finally told me how red and irritated my skin had been looking.  Wish they had said that sooner . . !

I do much better with AHA's on my skin with a little Renova on any  areas I am more concerned with ( eyes, lip line).  You just have to find your own combo.  I still think that for me the key word is
gentle.

Jae

Hi Jean,

I think there's two Terri's posting.

Anyway, here's a question that will maybe help clear up some concern Kevin's been having with peeling & skin exfoliation regarding Retin A & hydroxy's too.  Is continuous peeling even necessary?  From my recollections of reading the book on RetinA by the guy (forgot his name) who discovered
it, initiallly there is peeling, but once you adjust to it, the peeling subsides.  Once the peeling has subsided the RetinA has certainly not lost its ability to reduce wrinkles or why would you need to continue to use it, right?

I just get the impression from Kevin's post that he feels the need to see peeling in order to see results. I know there is always some exfoliation going on with these products, but not to the extent where visible peeling is evident, right?  If im incorrect with these thoughts straighten me out.

Terri

Hi Terri

You're right Terri. I hardly ever peel now, but when I first started I really did. Kind makes me hesitant to give up my Retin A in case I decide to go back to it. I really don't want to have to acclimate to it all over again.  It does take time and patience to learn to use. I really like the way it makes my skin look fresh and it DOES help to even out the tone. I think it's an excellent product. But again, as I've said before, it's not for everyone. 

Jason

1515

Kinerase trial    Apr 25, 2001   

I've started using Kinerase today. I'm going to give it a three month trial run. I'll let you know what I think of it.

Jason

Hi Jason,

Ill be waiting for an update if it works.  My plastic surgeon gave me scads of samples of it.  Seems that after I used it for 3-4 days id have a small acne type breakout, so I stopped.  This has happened a few times, but Im not really sure if its just coincidental. Are you giving up using Renova (or was it RetinA)?  What would happen if you used Kinerase & RetinA?  Hmmm? Would it
accelerate wrinkle eradication, or counteract or inter-react with each other? I have so much of the Kinerase I thought of using them together--whats your thoughts since your a "health professional"?


Speaking of health, Deb's link to Don Lemmon--what's his diet like?  My daughter's interning for her RD in dietetics & she feeds me (LOL)a lot of good info., plus I read a lot on diets.  I've lost 30 lb. & have kept it off l yr.  I need to increase my muscle mass though (walking & abs workout is all I do)and Don's diet sounds like it might do it--but Im leary of a lot of diets out there. I can't seem to figure out what his diets about by reading the info he has on his site. It doesn't seem like you have to exercise much with his plan.

Terri

Hi Terri

I'm not sure what Kinerase and Retin A would do together, but that's an interesting idea. Since Kinerase is a plant extract I can't see why the two would be incompatable, but honestly, I don't know. I may try it, however.

Don's diet does work. It does take a lot of planning and lately I've not been able to do that since my work has picked up tremendously. Consequently, I've gained about 5 lbs....yuck! But it is a good diet for weight training and losing wt.   If you try it good luck.

Jason

skin1514

Retin A or AHA?   Apr 25, 2001

Is it better to combine trireduction cream with retin-a or the glycolic acid cream on your website?

Cynthia
IP: 24.129.12.38

1512

To Jean about EO Apr 25, 2001    

Hi Jean,

I read you comments about how much you love EO. Could you tell me what website sells these products and what are the names of the particular EO products that you use? Do they do as much for you as CP? And when you use CP, do you layer it over Renova?

Thanks for your great tips!

PS>
Okay call me lame, but I'm confused. Is EO the same as Hope Aesthetics and BHW? Where do I get Hope and BHW products? (which website?) And if EO is different, which products do you
prefer - EO or Hope?

Thanks again!
Nancy
IP: 165.121.117.85

Hi Nancy

I know I'm jumping in here, hope you don't mind Jean but I do have the web site info for Hope.  It is www.hopeskincare.com. EO's are essential oils.  You can use them either alone as oils or they are
added into products such as the BHW Antioxidant cream.  Hope Aesthetics has many different products the main cream is the BHW cream and then you can add other creams and EO boosters over if you like.  .


Jean is the resident skincare guru and tests lots of products.   Great to have a living tester for all of us too chicken to try out all products!   She also knows much about different prcedures. For me, I LOVE the Hope products.   I feel like I have tried tons of product lines over the years (certainly every   new fad!) and this is one that works best for me. I have been using it for almost 2 years.  My skin is sensitive yet I still want the benefits of AHA's and oils that don't cause rashes or breakouts.  I get all of this with these gentle yet effective products. I layer Renova over it every other night.  They will send you testers if you call them to help you decide how well they work on you!

Jae

Hi Nancy

I just abbreviate EO for essential oils, of which Hope offers.  I like them.  Yes, do like CP's...ALSO.  I think both are very effective.  No, I have not yet tried layering CP over Renova...have you tried this?  Several have and say it works very well.  On Skinbio site they mentioned once there was a report somewhere stating the effectiveness of this combo..they were
going to post it when they located it.  (written by a Dr in Fl I believe they said.)

Jean

1510

To Jean: applying  products etc. Apr 23, 2001 

Thanx Jean for responding to me last week.  Im new to this, just started flexing this week after getting the video.  Must be psychomatic 'cuz I feel I look better already:) 

I've used Renova, Kinerase, RetinA, Renova, Skinceuticals C+AHA, but never heard of copper peptides til reading Deb's site.  Is there a book where I can read up on CP? Is it a wrinkle reducer?


I was wondering if you could give a detailed rundown on what products you use, when you apply them (morning, evening etc) & in what order do you apply them--including sunscreen.

Reading through the discussion board I read about MSM, selinium, alpha lipolic acid, Vit C home-made brews by Deb and others. What about these?  Are they more for wrinkles or moisturizing or preventitive anti-oxidant treatments, or pore reducers, or????  And as for the C they use, is it ester C or L-ascorbic. Isn't the L-ascorbic the only C that penetrates deep?  Help.....IM CONFUSED, but very interested in developing a treatment that will help me.

Thanx again
Terri
IP: 199.183.76.17  

Hi Terri: 

Go to the "Ask the Professionals" site on this board (Dr. Pickard)  Skinbio and there is everything you could possibly ever wish to know or learn about copper peptides.  They are being dispensed widely in Dermatology Ctrs also.   Procyte.com is another good info site for copper peptides... Neova...blue Copper, etc. etc.  Lots of info.  (Hope you like to READ!!) LOL.  I have
revamped my skin care regime so many times with so many varying degrees of this that and the other, I don't know how I even remember what or which I am doing.  (but I enjoy alternating).....I, personally, like to incorporate EO's and botanicals in with whatever.   There are lots of good EO products, just be mindful of where and what and be sure ingred. are provided and qstns answered.  I use these and copper peptides.   Generally 4 days one, 4 days the other....and one day in there I
don't use anything at all..not even moisturizer.  Massage as many times a wk as I can squeeze in (great one in Deb's book!)  I used to flex every single night and I still double up on areas, but I
flex about 4 times a wk. now.  Seems to work for me.  I think cleansing and hydrating are the 2 most important things. (your choice of products)..trial and error. AND SUNSCREEN IS THE
BIGGEST AID YOU CAN USE.  (I prefer Ti Silk).  I love the P&R creams (protect & Restore)...their Calypso Oil for body is NICE....AND I have recently begun using creams from Hope Aesthetics that are (to me) the epitamy of elegance...not the price; the feel!  There are so many really excellent and effective skin care products EVERYWHERE...some of them do
actually work...best thing is get samples, try and decipher out what is pure hype and what is realistic.  Only way to do this is to use.  Eventually you will weed out what you truly love and what is just so so..and build your own routine from that.  Not much great help, but go with what YOU like and what feels comfortable...and what has some basis behind it.  And above all, have fun with it!  If you make a bad decision or a not so hot purchase....oh well....move on.  Use it on your feet...they can
benefit from about anything!  I also love Renova.  that is just an established fact. I Use apprx 3 x a wk.  And I smile when I look in the mirror; not because I am so gorgeous certainly....but
BECAUSE I AM HAVING SO MUCH FUN!!!!! :)

Jean

1509

More silly questions Apr 22, 2001    

god too much info, ok if i were to use retin a, someone told me not to use under the eye, use only up to the top of the cheek, and the fumes would some how be enough for the under eye area, i really doubt this ,and i assume you are supposed to place on wrinkles on the bottom eye lid.

Kevin
IP: 66.27.164.69

Hi Kevin

On the advise of my board certified plastic surgeon, using RetinA on the eye area is quite acceptable form of treatment for wrinkles.  In fact, after my lower lid surgery was healed, my doctor prescribed Retin A .0l% to "tighten the area, and reduce wrinkles"--my other alternative was CO2 Lazer surgery.  However, it takes time, a minimum of 6 mo. he said to see results.   Patience with the product is necessary.  So hang in there, and good luck!

PS.  Make sure you are using the product correctly--once a day, at nite is sufficient and don't use more than the prescribed amount (or use it every second or third day if its really dry & peeling). Use a gentle cleanser & moisturize the area in the morning.   Keep away from oily moisturizers that clogs the pores and casuses these pimple like things around the eyes that you can't squeeze out (then you have to have a dermatologist, eye doctor, or plastic surgeon excise them--this happened to me).
Yes, you will notice more wrinkles at first because the area is dry.  I'm having the same problem, but if we persist, and get through the adjustment period I'm sure we'll see result--in conjunction with the exercises of course!!!

Terri

1508

CP Products  Apr 22, 2001   

Hi All,

Just started flexing and also got some CP products to try out from the skinbiology site. My question is: How long should I expect it to take before I see some wrinkle-reduction using the CP serum and other products? Also: I have some puffiness around my mouth (loose skin area) and I see wrinkles trying to form there. Can I nip them in the bud?? Which exercises are best for this area? I've been doing the mouth flex, etc. Will the CP stuff work in that area to stave off wrinkles and eliminate the
little ones that are already there??

Lynne
IP: 152.163.197.82

Hi Lynn

Do ALL the ex for the mouth area..every one of them works wonderfully..the ex for lips as well..and corner mouth pull is excellent for your problem (and mine).  I like the CP products.  If you read the posts, some people see results almost right away; some takes longer...like all other things..depending
on conditions to start with and what all you have used on your skin previously.  I believe cps are a great preventitive measure from getting more and deeper wrinkles.   I notice a big difference
in the 'look' of my skin using them and they do seem to minimize the larger defects and
imperfections.  I think there is a whole lot to it that is very valid.  Read and research and ask qstns,
as you are...but the answer is in the performance it does for you personally.

Jean

Hi Lynn

In addition to flexing, I've found that AHAs really help to decrease wrinkles as well. Afterwards, you can put on your favorite cream, CPs, renova, Retin A, etc.  My mainstay right now is Neova face wash and toner. I then apply Retin A micro three to four times a week. Really seems to bring out incredible skin tone. Then, of course, I wear sunblock spf 45 every day.

Jason

jason,

I know you really like retin a,   im trying to avoid it if possible,but  if products like copper peptides and kinerase dont make the skin peel off or whatever you call the function of  retin a, then how can these other things work as well as retin a? again i know you are only really familiar with retin a, but what do you speculate ?  i just find it hard to believe if copper pertide and kinerase only moisturize how they can actually  help get rid of  or diminish the apperance of already existing wrinkls, too me retin a is a no brainer it kills the top layers and forces  the skin to repair it self, do these other products force the skin to repair without killing the top layers

Kevin

Jason..

just wanted to tell you that I have been using the Ti Silk regularly and I truly like this sunscreen better than any I have tried.  It absorbs very rapidly.  mine is also spf45.  It is wonderful.

Jean

1507

Hope Aesthetics  Apr 22, 2001     

Hi Jae:  thx for your info on this skin care line earlier.  I did try some.   It really makes your skin so soft.  I have probably lost all credibility talking about skin care products since I like everyone of them I ever try..that is practically without exception too......Still love the cp's....but these creams at Hope are worth checking out as well.  They must be very penetrating.  They are so soothing I could not believe it!  They just plain feel good!!  Packaging isn't everything, I know, but I LIKE PACKAGING..and these are packaged so elegantly.  The catalog is 'welcoming effect' (I loved the catalog)..And they seem to conduct a one on one rapport with their customers....a personal approach; I really like this also.  So, if you want some really aesthetically comforting and remarkable creams...try these out! mmmmmmmmm.

Jean

Hi Jean,

I love the fact that they are so great to talk to and willingly send free samples of their products to try.  They just sent me six to try.  They obviously believe in their products!!!   The ingredient lists are incredible, all natural lots of great oils, shea butters, herbs.  The BHW antioxidant has been wonderful on my skin.  I get many compliments on my skin when I use it daily.  I am trying the eye gel now and have to say that I, surprised me, can really see a difference around my eyes.  Also the products penetrate completely with no greasy feeling.  My skin is very sensitive, still breaks out, this line is so gentle that my skin really responds to it, never causes a break out.  The price is good, too.  The products last a long time.  I am a very skeptical person and believe in testing everything.  This product line has stood up to the time test for me.  That is very, very rare.  In fact, I can only say that about this and Renova.

The woman who founded this company was a cancer survivor and was upset to see her skin ruined through chemo.  Nothing helped, so she went and researched and found these wonderful combinations of ingredients.  Love to find things that really work for me!   Glad you are enjoying them, too!   Most of their products also contain natural AHAs

Jae

Hi Jae

Glad to hear it.  I have not used anything that has felt so totally luscious!  I too appreciate greatly being provided with ingredient lists for virtually everything.

Jean

Hi Jae

I called Hope & they told me you had to purchase one product and they will send you 2 free samples, was this your experience?  Which products have you liked?  Do you use the BHW before
applying your sunscreen?  I find that Solbar 50 sunscreen I use is so heavy, I generally don't even use a moisturizer (day).  Have you tried Hope's eye products? I haven't studied the site very long, so can you tell me which of their AHA products you like. My eyes water so much after applying sunscreen, im going to switch.  Ti Silk sounds interesting, who makes it?

Thanx
Terri  

Hi Jean

I never knew that policy because I ordered the BHW to try first and then received a lot of samples.  I have gotten samples many times. I think once you a have ordered, it is not a problem because
I was just sent a slew of them in between orders.  Go figure. Sometimes it does depend on who you talk to.  Call back and try again!

I love the BHW Antioxidant the best.  I am trying the eye gel and am very impressed and just ordered.  Also ordered the papaya mask. I have oily skin so I don't really need the other creams.  I have sampled them and they are luscious.  I also tried their new line of foundation and found it to be to oily for my skin.

For sunscreens I use Aubrey Organics their Green Tea sunscreen.  It was made for kids and is great for sensitive skin.  All natural with wonderful oils, vitamins, titanium dioxide, green tea and lots of good things for the skin.  It is SPF 25.   I always prefer as many natural ingredients as possible.  They have about 6 different sunscreens.  You can check them out at their website.  I use their cleansing products and masks.  Another GREAT company.  100% natural and organic with really reasonable prices.  I have used them for about 2 years.

Jae

Hi Jae:

Yes, I too have rcvd. samples.  I like that very much.  I use several things also from Aubrey Organics..and yes they are very good.  I love their shampoos and face masks (Rose Mosquetta
especially).  I just ordered the eye cream from Hope also....

Jean

Great Jean,

we can compare notes on how well the eye gel works.   I have never used a gel before but I have to say that - gotta give it some more time - BUT I have noticed a big difference around my eyes.  Keep my fingers crossed.   The Aubrey masks are wonderful, aren't they?!

Thanks for all your skin care knowledge!

Jae

1505

Jason, just trying to get this all down! Apr 20, 2001    

ok  what is the difference between cp serums retina  renova and retinol, what difference have people noticed in their skin using the different creams? i read that cp serum is more effective in helping wrinkles than retina  etc type products, im lost too much info ,   last question jason what brand of
sunblock  again did you say, also i have very sensitive  skin under my eyes and certain ones almost give me a little rash, like little tiny pimples , the only one i ever tried that felt great was purpose, but its only 15 , and i would like to go to 30, but i need somthing really clean and non iritating like
purpose

Kevin
IP: 66.27.164.69

Hi Kevin

Okay, anybody correct me if I'm wrong but retinol is just vitamin A. Tretinoin, the active ingredient in renova and Retin A is a derivative of Vitamin A, an acidic derivation of the vitamin. Renova is the same as Retin A as far as the active ingredient but the former has added emolients to soften the skin. I've heard some people say that the emolients decrease it's effectiveness.

Titanium dioxide is a far less irritating ingredient in sun blocks than most others. You should look for a sun block whose primary ingredient contains it. I'm using Ty-Silc at the moment and it seems to be doing the job.  Anyone have any other suggestions on what sunblock products they recommend?

Jason

1500

Re: Retin A / Renova Apr18, 2001     

For people with really sensitive skin, that peels too much with Retin A, Renova is wonderful.  Renova is the same thing, made by the same company, Ortho, but it has mineral oil added.  It is much less harsh and great if you are using it for wrinkles and not for acne.  It only comes in one strength and that is .05%.  It was made for use with wrinkles.

Jae
IP: 38.29.80.99

Hi Jae.

I have been using Renova for quite some time and I have really had no dryness or ill effects from it at all.  I love the way it works....at one point, while using strictly EO's for some months, I stopped the Renova on advise of my EO supplier.  I had then been using Renova over a year at that particular time.  When I stopped using it for 6 mos., the tiny fine lines I had managed to obliterate practically had all returned.  so it does work wonderfully..in my opinion, and out of all the things I have used, I still find nothing comparable (except perhaps copper peptides...I am on a copper peptide kick now)...do LOVE that also.   lol.  For me, Renova has been (and continues to be) a most excellent product!

Jean

Hi Jean,

you took the words right out of my mouth!  I, too, stopped for about 6 months thinking that I didn't need it anymore.  One morning I looked in the mirror and was shocked to see lots of tiny lines around my eyes.  So, smart girl (change that to vain woman) that I am, went right back to Renova and once again, my skin is looking better daily!  I still use Rosehip oil around my eyes during the day.  I find that when I use Renova and that BHW product by Hope Aesthetics my skin looks very smooth and soft.  They also have an eye get that I am trying and am very impressed.  All of their ingredients are natural, with EO's, creams and gycolics. The combo of Renova at night with natural oils and creams during the day is really a winner for me.  It really works.  I agree with you!!

Jae

Hi Jae or Jean,

Where can you get Renova?

Ellen

Hi Ellen

You usually have to get it from a doctor with a prescription. Usually a dermatologist. Some people here have listed websites to buy Retin A without a prescription.  Hopefully someone else knows
if they also sell Renova.

Jae

Hi Ellen:

I got my Rx from the dermatologist.  I do not know if is available elsewhere?  Perhaps, ask your Dr. also.
Jean

1499

Retin A question for Jason Apr 18,2001     

ok im trying retin a, boy is it harsh, im ok with it  , the things im trying to figure out is how do i get  the dead skin off? i can see and feel the skin looks more wrinkled ,under my eyes but  i know its cause its really dry , i had this happen before along time ago when i tried retin a, and i freaked out cause my wrinkles ;looked worse and then the skin started to flake off and it looked alot better, so my question to you is what do you do,  do you just use retin a and a moisturiser or do you use somthing to get the dead skin off under the eyes like a scrub or somthing

Kevin
IP: 66.27.164.69

Hi Kevin

My skin rarely peels like that anymore with Retin A, but I use my fingers to help exfoliate. I would advise not to use a facial scrub because they often have little particles in the scrub that actually tear the skin. Better off just using your fingers. I also use AHAs that help remove dead skin.

It does take time and PATIENCE to learn to use Retin A. For wrinkles, it is a start and stop procedure until your skin gets used to it. I now use Retin A .1% every other night. Occassionally, I run a four night in a row application then back to every other night. It will not do much for deep wrinkles but it causes your complexion and tone to dramatically improve once you get used to it. I love the stuff, BUT it is not for everyone. Some people do really well with it while others have an awful time and cannot get past the initial adjustment period.

Good luck with it.
Jason

Hi guys. 

I am here to tell you that exercising DOES HELP WITH WRINKLES....tremendously.  Jason is correct; it will not totally erase deeper ones, but 'plumps' them up...or the muscles building give the appearance of plumpness.   Topical products assist..as well as diet, water intake, avoidance of sun etc etc...all working together....but facial exercising is a great huge big bonus in the wrinkle project!  Nobody will ever convince me in a kazillion years anything otherwise.

Jean

1487

Copper Petide Creams Apr 14, 2001   

Hi Jae,

I have been using four Copper Peptide products since January 2001: Trireduction WITHOUT retinol for stretchmarks, P&R Body Lotion for my hands, P&R WITHOUT retinol for my face at night, and P&R Day Cover during the day.In four short months, I have notice my stretch marks fading,my hands are soft and young looking, and the brown spots on my face are just about gone.


If you read the scientific info on the Skin Biology site,one of the benefits of using copper peptides is that the subcutaneous fat layer in the skin increases in mass.I believe this claim is true because I have definitely noticed a dramatic change in my skin. It "feels" fatter. This benefit, along with "flexing" for a year, has brought about remarkable changes in my face. I'm thirty-eight and people who don't know me guess I'm somewhere between twenty-eight and thirty. Those who do know me can't figure out
why I don't age.

As a side note, I have found that doing the cheek exercises and the lower lid lift TWICE a day, once in the morning, and once before bed, has just about eliminated the creepiness under my eyes I initially experienced when smiling.

Laura
IP: 208.135.46.102

Hi Laura...

I also have noticed wonderful effects from the P&R creams.  People have commented and think it is because I am doing some 'procedure' at the clinic I work in.  I have used combos of everything imaginable on my skin past several yrs. and the copper peptides are the ones I am the most satisfied with.  I agree with you also about creepiness under eye area, I doubled up also on this locale and though it took several months to build to the point of decreased creepiness, this does seem to be the solution to it.  Deb always says to really 'go after' the problem areas with added exercise or topical applications; whichever and together...worked for me too!

Jean

1477

Retin-A online  Apr 10, 2001     

A while back someone gave a web site where you could buy Retin-A online without a prescription.  Please re-post that address.

Thank you.
Karen
IP: 205.188.200.52

Hi karen

I'll find it and re-post here.

Deb

Rita:

I happened to print that post which was dated March 10, 2000.The number in Mexico for Retin-A is 011-526-680-1440.  Also, they sent me an order form that has another phone number which
is 011-526-680-1103.  Fax number 011-526-680-2529.  Cost of the .05 Retin-A cream is $13.

Becky

1476

Bio-Heal (CP) and the hands  Apr 10, 2001    

Hi:

I'm not a long term user of copper peptide but I did get a sample of the Bio-Heal and have been using it for around 3 weeks on my hands.  The sample is rather expensive ($18.95) The creme
is not what you would call a typical "hand creme."  It is different and feels like it's doing something positive to my hands.  The top part of my hands do look a little better in terms of smoothness and I'm seriously considering on ordering more.  The creme is blue in color and has menthol in it and the
smell isn't the best but it does feel good on the hands.  I've never used Retin-A on my hands (only my face) so I can't say which would be best, but I can say from the short time I've used this creme, I've been pretty impressed with it.

Becky
IP: 207.4.64.85

1469

Guinae pig report. lol  Apr 8, 2001    

O.K.  I think I have found the skin care products I am going to be staying with for long time.  As we know, I like them all...but I r e a l l y   r e a l l y like the products from skin biology: copper peptides.  I love the CP serum and the Protect & Restore (I have used their glycolic one also)..gentle. I very much like the emu oil over CP serum.  This combo seems to work so well for me, personally.   Maybe I impress too readily, but I am totally impressed with these products.   I will still incorporate my 'other favorites'...as I love to alternate.  I do find the CP products more than just satisfactory, and I will definitely use them...often.   I realized more benefits from these products in a reasonable time span than I did in using one of our other discussed skin care systems for 6 months!

Jean

Hi Eveyone

I would love to hear from other people using these products for longer length of times.  Jason, didn't you try these, too?  What did you think?

I am so tired of having a drawer filled with the best "new" thing.  Would be very interested to hear long term users report on the CP Serum and Copper Peptides!!   Please let us know!

Jae
IP: 38.29.80.223

Hi Jae

Well, I'm still using Retin A. I have used Protect and Restore Copper Peptide by Loren Pickart, but I have not used it consistently like I have Retin A. I love the way Retin A makes my skin look. It did take a long time to get used to initially, but now my skin has gotten so used to it that I rarely peel, and even when I do I just wash my face and use my figers to exfoliate. I use AHAs to cleanse and then an AHA toner.

I did like the CP cream, but I never thought it did as much for me as using Retin A so after several months I discontinued it. I have recently ordered a 20% Vitamin C solution from Skinceuticals
that I'll be using in conjunction with my regular skin care routine. I'll let you know how that goes.


I did purchase some EOs over the net quite a few months back. But I was disenchanted with them fairly quickly. Other than making my skin oily and producing a rather foul stench, I felt they
accomplished little. But skin care is such a personal thing. Some things seem to work better for some people and worse for others. In the end, it's really a trial and error process.

Jason

Hi Jae,

The CP serum has worked very well for me.  I am not a long time user, however the beauty of this product is you don't have to wait months and months to see results...at least not in my case.I would suggest trying some samples and see for yourself how these products work for you.

Bonnie
IP: 63.252.148.157

Hi Bonnie,

I did call the company to order some samples.  The samples that were suggested cost over $25.00, which I thought was alot for just a few samples, a one month supply.  Hearing others opinions is always helpful! 

Jae

Bonnie
                                                           
I agree Bonnie.  30 days is long enough to determine if a product is going to have any beneficial results for you.  You may not realize the total results you may reap with further and longer term use in that length of time, but enough to have a clue. These products have done very well for me.  Jae, you may purchase sample packs to try before you make investment. as Bonnie suggested.  Also info on CP's is readily available, accessable and documented.

Jean

Hi Jean,


while length of time may be important for some products, it is very important for others.  As in Retin A or Renova.  You can't expect to start seeing changes before 6 months.  And the most dramatic changes occur within 2 years.   Glycolic acids are the same.  The longer the length of time, the more visible results.  In fact, too many quit Retin A's, not giving them enough time to get beyond the initial peeling. Essential oils work better the longer the use as well.

I would still like to hear from some long term users of the Copper Peptide product, if there are any on this board.  For me, many times I am initially impressed with the results but within a few months become disenchanted!  I love products that just keep getting better over time.  I will share one with everyone.   It is made by Hope Aesthetics, called BHW Antioxidant Hydrating Moisturizer.   I
initially read about it in People magazine.  It is wonderful, I have used it   off and on for over 1 year and I have found that the more consistent I am, the better my skin looks. I get the most compliments on my skin when I am using it.  I use it along with Renova.  They have a website that you can check out.  www.hopeskincare.com.  Thanks for all the info!

PS..
Hope Aesthetics web page is having some trouble today, hopefully it will be up and working by tomorrow.  In my opinion, it is another  line worth checking out! 

Jae
IP: 38.29.80.100

Hi Jae: 

You are absolutely right.  I was not thinking along the lines of retin A and Renova.  I stand corrected.  Thx for the info on the new web site you mentioned.

Jean

1449

Retin-A  Apr 3, 2001

Deb,

Is it normal for the skin directly under my eyes to be sensitive, develope a reddish tone, look and feel wrinkly and dry, and feel tender to the touch after using Retin-A ?  I just started using it for the first time this weekend. I use it every other night and apply vit E on the alternate nights. Is this a normal reaction when first starting Retin-A ? Or does it sound like I'm going to be one of the few that shouldn't use it ? I know you have used RA for a while now, and trust your answer. The skin on the rest of my face is just fine. The only problem area is under my eyes.

Thank you,
Wanda
IP: 216.28.211.170


Wanda,

I've used Retin A for the last two years, and yes, that is a typical reaction. There is definitely an adjustment period when first using Retin A. It is a difficult product for most people to use. You often have to use a stop/start approach when first getting started with it. You may find that for the under eye area that you need to put it on every third day or even fourth day and then slowly work your way to more frequent applications.

I usually go about 10 days in a row before taking a couple nights off. But I couldn't do that when I first got started.


Invest in a good moisturizer for those nights that you don't use Retin A. There are a few books that have been written about how to use it effectively. Might be a good investment. Go to Barnes and Noble and do a search. You should see several titles if you're interested.

Deb, anything you want to add?

Jason

1438

skin care  Mar 26,2001    

Deb,

I read that you use a mixture of NA-PCA, MSM & Selenium.  What is the full name for these products and where can u find selenium cream. Also you said you use Vitamin E capsule on your
face.  I was wonering if the oil wont clog up the pores.

Thanks,

Ann
IP: 63.73.123.39

Hi Ann

NA-PCA is a liquid spray (actual name) ...MSM powder (actual name) ...and liquid Selenium.(actual name) You should be able to find all of this at any healthfood store.  No problem with E clogging pores since I also use Retin-A.

Deb ;0)

1435

Ti-silc Mar 25, 2001 

You have to find a dermatologist's or cosmetic surgeon's office to buy it. It's rather pricey but I like it a lot. I think Jean gave us a web site awhile back that may have had it, too, the site where you could buy Giorgio Milan products. Jean, do you remember the site? If so, maybe you could post it again.

Jason

Hi Jason..

I THINK it was The Skin Site...or American Academy of Dermatology...I cannot remember.  I THINK the Ti stands for titanium dioxide, not sure; am I correct?  don't feel bad, I was spelling it TaiSilk.  lol.  I will look further at office, as I have read about it.  I am totaly not sure of this either, but I think it comes from Collaberative Labs...but I will find out.

Jean

Jason,

Ti Silk is on Ageless Skin Care Sun Care Products website.  there is a sheer spf45, non comedogenic, paba free, fragrance free...TiSilk Advantage moist sunstick....ti-silk z, moist spf
30.  (A-cute Derm Pro-tect sunscreen).  all is compatable under makeup for us females as well!

Jean

Hey Jason,

It does not come up under Ageless Skin Care on aol. (I found on Expolorer)...anyway there seems to be a different Ageless skin care site that comes up on aol.  the official site for ti-silk
is:  http://www.agelessskincare.com/specialty/sunscreen.htm

Jean

Hi,

I have been using this Ti silc sunscreen for about one year now.  I think it's a little greasy, and I still get very red in the sun. I don't know if it affects everyone that way, but it hasn't worked that well for my skin.   I've been looking for alternatives, and wearing a hat.

Trish

Hi Trish.

sometimes if you have oily skin, sunscreens do seem to be greasy...and some just are greasy.  effect people diff, same as all skin care products.  There is another very good one that seems to be good for all skin types..is put out by MD Forte...it is an spf30...goes great under makeup.  there are so many really good sunscreens out there, you could spend 2 yrs researching them all. Quite often, companies who make and market them, will send you free samples to try if you ask.  That is always nice as you can really put them to your own test before you invest.

Jean

Hey Everybody

Here is a good website:  Procyte.com.  Ti silk sun care also on this website. (about copper peptides)...Neova products, etc. and a lot of useful interesting info.

Jean

1433

FlexEffect beginner Mar 25, 2001    

hi..i've recently started the flexeffect program...i'm very excited about this program..i'm 43 years old and often have been told that i don't look my age,   however, i've noticed in the past year, my pores have become enlarged...i currently use retin-a...i just recently changed from cream to gel...my skin is very dry and looks awful...is this normal??  i've been using these products for several years, but this is the first time my skin has dried like this.. i thought maybe i needed to go with a stronger cream....in regards to my enlarged pores...any suggestions??? also can you recommend anything for hands??  they look older than i look...

sincerely,
catherine
IP: 64.10.143.49

Hi Catherine. 

Have you checked Renova?  It is a little more moisturizing..sometimes if you use Renova (or Retin A.whichever you opt for, every other p.m. it works very well too.  I love Carmol for hands..but there are literally tons of good moisturizers and soothers for hands. Actually soaking your hands
in powdered milk and water is very softening, then apply your choice of cream.  If they are cracked and sore, you may need something stronger.  Having chemical peels on the backs of your hands is a very effective option as well.  Congrats on beginning flexing....prepare to be amazed!

Jean

Hi Catherine

As I remember reading the gel .025% is equal to the .05% cream and of course the .05% gel is equal to using .1% cream. Because the gel is an alcohol base, it is much more readily absorbed by
the skin thus the effects and side effects occur more rapidly. Still, in time, your skin should adjust to it especially if you've been using Retin A over the last couple years.


The hands can benefit from Retin A as well; however, since the skin on the hands is different than that of the face, it takes longer and it's efficacy may not be as readily apparent. You can do microdermabrasion and even laser for the hands as well. I've spoken with a tech who performs micro derm. and she said it's very effective although several treatments must be done consecutively. I've not talked to anyone who's had laser treatment for the hands although I've read that it can be an
option.

Jason


Hi Catherine,

I've found that using "Protect and Restore" copper peptide cuts way down on the irritation I've had from Retin A. I use them alternate nights.

Sadie

Hey Sadie!

I have been considering alternating CP with Retin A also. Do you find CP works as well as retin A? Loren Pickart told me that there was a study done layering CP over Retin A. He said the combo worked synergistically - better than either product alone. Have you considered layering them?

Good luck,
Barbara


Hi Barbara,

I've thought about layering them, but I've opted not to. Alternating nights is working really well for me and I'm afraid to mess with a good thing :-) As for whether CP works as well as Retin A, that would be impossible for me to tell because I started using CP maybe 2 months after starting Retin
A. All I can say for sure is that the CP really cut down on the irritation I had from Retin A.

I ordered the Emu Oil (the one with all the antioxidants in it) and have been using it for a week. I really like it! It hasn't broken me out and it works well as a moisterizer for me. They also sent me a sample of body lotion, but it smells REALLY bad and I won't be using it :-(

Sadie

Barbara:

Are you layering them?  If so, how is it doing for you? I have read good reports on copper peptides, pretty impressive.  I have ordered the sample deal to try.  (I am like an in-resident guinae pig....open to all options.) lol.  Incidentally, someone asked me awhile back (forgot now who and I forgot to reply) if I was still using Perricone.  Yes, I am ..I like it too!  It does take several months to realize benefits, however, but I do like the products very much...except the cleanser I find too strong
for me....I think his concept is good, I don't know if all the claims are realistic..I will tell you in several more months! lol. as long as I am hydrating, moisturinzing and cleansing, I feel is a plus, no matter what product I chose to go that route with.  I said awhile back I was just going to try them all and I believe I am coming pretty close to doing that!  One plus I feel is I had a Jesner peel and that seems to allow other topicals to absorb much better and be more effective.  Let me know how it
goes with the CP serum.  I would like to read the report about layering them   with retin A...do you know where I could find it? 
thx.

Jean

Hi Sadie

I've been layering retin-A with copper peptide for about 2 months now and really, really like! I was using m25% retin-a a few times a week and even that was causing my skin to dry and peel.  I
stopped for about 4 months and went back with it adding the copper peptide.  My skin is looking great. I also use a bit of beta hydroxide a few times a week then layer the copper over that. My
skin has a bad tendency to break out and this seems to be the only combination that helps.   Let me know more as you try combinations. By the way the sample of copper peptide solution Skin Biology sent me is different than the full size bottle. The full size has a slipping agent that makes it go on easily and less smell.

Lynn


Hi Lynn!

Do you wait a certain amount of time after applying Retin A to apply CP?

I am interested to see if the emu oil's vitamens and antioxidants have an effect on my skin a few months down the road :-) I'll keep ya'll posted on it!

Sadie

1432

New SPF65 Sunbolck   Mar 24, 2001

Hi.  I have tried this several days and I really like it..sort of disappears into your skin.  I, personally,
like it...but then I like everything....so a person really needs to try it out for themselves.  I understand it has a full spectrum protection for photosensitive people.  does not contain PABA but is made with a mixture of 8 forms of highly reflective, micronized particles plus 3 organic ultraviolet absorbers. Is great for those of us who have chemical peels, laser or other procedures of this nature.  it also has spf60 foundation cover up...acts as a protective liquid make up to cover up hyper pigmented skin. 
Useful for covering erythema resulting from laser treatment, and is also useful with other pigmentation irregularities.  Also has a cover up spf60...comes w/light and dark control packets so you can custom match to your own skin tone.  The clear spf65 gives all the protection and advantages of
spf60  foundation makeup. Has a complete and total photoprotective/cellular protective system, the only topical products of their kind anywhere they claim. (patented),  I will be glad when we get more of it avail at our clinic.  I feel will be a good product.  Ty silk is excellent product as well.   Now, total block is a protective system and does not actively treat any disease.  Is good for skin cancer protection, post laser surgery, drug photosensitivity,lupus sensitivity, facial trauma, post radiation therapy, post transplant chemo, rosacea...and camaflage make up.  happy shopping!

Jean

Hi Jean

What's the name of this sunblock Jean?

Hi.

The name of it is TOTAL BLOCK.   (fallene.com)..contains antioxidants and trace elements,,,I will type a list of the ingredients as soon as I haul out my pamphlet...or they will probably list them on the site.

Jean

Hi Again, 

Since I have had such good results with lift from flexing, now I am really on the 'lift quest' topically as well.  I told you of a couple products I tried...still like them too!  Got a new one!  this is from Bio-firm 2000.  This stuff is super nice......contains A & E and includes collagen moisturizing
gel..which feels marvelous.  The ingred are all listed on side of the box.   herbal extracts, egg white.  does make skin radiant like they say.   Hypoallergenic non-comedogenic, natural ph level. pharmaceutical grade of herbal extracts:  albumem (lifting), aloe (moisturizing), soya, (revitalizing) pineapple (toning) and camomile (soothing)...........maybe we could eat it! Anyway, I really like it, but as stated previously, I like everything and my skin seems receptive to everything.   I was real impressed with this one as well!

Hi Jean

Where did you get bio form 2000

Ann

Hi Ann. 

I have seen Bio 2000 on various sites, but I got mine from Joy Beauty.
Jean

Hi Jean, Jason and everyone!
    
I tried the untinted product of Total Block spf 65  and like it a lot. The only minus is, it is pretty thick, and I  need extra moisturizer on top of it before make-up, therefore, I will try  the tinted one to lessen the layering. (p.s. i've got sensitive skin and despite using renova, it stings only a couple
of seconds and then goes away. No breakouts etc. Really good protection under strong sunlight.)

Teresa

1431

Re: large pores: Mar 21, 2001    


Visit: http://www.scar-reduction.com/#Skin Renewal Testimonials and Comments

There are several testimonials about how P&R reduces pore size. I have been using the product for three months now,and I am amazed at how well the product works. P&R alongwith flexing can't be beat.

Laura
IP: 208.135.46.94


Hi Laura,

Which P & R cream are you using? I think there is a P&R cream 1,2 and 3 if I'm not mistaken. And have you tried the CP serum? Are there other improvements in addition to smaller pores that you
have noticed?

Thanks,
Jan
IP: 165.121.112.248

1427


Suncreen/Sunblocks

Came across a great article on the net concerning sunscreens and sunblocks. Over the last couple years I have periodically talked about them and their importance. For those interested, I'm
pasting the article here.

UNDERSTANDING SUNSCREENS


Understanding sunscreens (Learn this. This is important!) Every day we are asked by patients and website visitors about sunscreens. The question most commonly asked “what is the best sunscreen?” The truth is there is no perfect sunscreen, but newer formulations with combinations of ingredients are providing better and better protection. If you are confused by the hundreds of sunscreens that are on the market, you are not alone. This article is designed to provide you with the information that will make it possible for you to intelligently read the labels on sunscreen containers in order to select a product that is best suited to your needs. Furthermore, we are going to tell you how to read and understand the labels without making it necessary for you to acquire an advanced degree in organic chemistry. In order to learn how to pick sunscreens you will have to learn a few basic concepts. This will take you about 5 minutes (no 3 minutes because you are smarter than average!)


First, let’s define terms as they relate to sunlight. The wavelengths of light that damage the skin are in the ultraviolet range. These wavelengths are too short to be perceived by the human eye. While you can’t see them or really feel them, this is the energy that does the damage. There are 3 types of
ultraviolet light. UVA, UVB and UVC. We can discard considerations about UVC since it does not penetrate the earth’s atmosphere and reach the surface of the earth.


UVA is called long Ultraviolet A since the wavelength is longer than Ultraviolet B (320 to 400 nanometers). This wavelength of light has two effects. The short term effect is tanning and the
long term affect is aging. UVA penetrates into the deeper layer of the skin where it breaks up the elastin and collagen fibers. These are the fibers that give the skin its integrity and elasticity. When this material is damaged the skin becomes wrinkled. In addition, we now also know that Ultraviolet A
suppresses the immune system of the skin, possibly making it more susceptible to the development of skin cancer and/or certain types of infections.


UVB is a shorter wavelength of light (290 to 320 nanometers). The short term effect of UVB is to cause sunburn. The long term effect is skin cancer.


In order to provide optimal protection for the skin, a sunscreen should provide protection against both UVA and UVB. Ultraviolet A reaches the ground throughout the year. Ultraviolet B, at
least in the latitudes of North America and Northern Europe, is usually filtered by the atmosphere when the sun is lower in the sky in the winter months (the sunlight intersects the angle in the surface of the earth at a more acute angle and in effect passes through a thicker layer of air which provides a filtering function.)


UVB this is a problem during the summer months. UVA can cause damage year round. It must also be remembered that the intensity of ultraviolet lights of both types becomes more intense the closer one travels to the equator. Also, at high altitudes in places such as ski resorts ultraviolet light is more intense. the damage caused by UV light is not caused by heat. You can sustain sun damage on a cold but sunny day.


Now let’s define some terms related to the kinds of products that are supposed to protect the skin from sunlight. These are sunscreens and sunblocks. A sunscreen contains a chemical that absorbs the energy of the ultraviolet light, thereby protecting the skin. A sunblock on the other hand reflects the sunlight and actually physically blocks the radiant energy and prevents it from reaching the skin.


When sunscreens first came out in the late 60’s (compounds containing paraminobenzoic(acid etc.) they contained chemicals that filtered out UVB. This was good in that it protected people from sunburn and also reduced their risk of getting skin cancer. The problem was that people then began to spend more time in the sun than they might otherwise have, and exposed themselves to ever increased quantities of UVA. Thus inadvertently the availability of UVB filtering sunscreens may have contributed to premature aging of the skin by prompting people to spend more time in the sun than they might otherwise have.


Okay, so how do you pick a sun protection product? Read the labels. The following ingredients protect the skin from Ultraviolet B. These are classes of compounds called aminobenzoates, cinnamates and salicylates. You will note that these compounds tend to end with the syllable “-ate”. These compounds should be present in sufficient quantities to provide a PF (protection factor rating which applies only to Ultraviolet B) of 15 to 30. These sunscreens will provide you with good
protection with UVB (and sunburn and the risk of skin cancer).


What about protection against UVA? The best anti UVA sunscreen is methylanthranilate, also known as butylmethoxydibenzoylmethane, avobenzone or Parsol 1789. Fortunately, the names most commonly used are avobenzone or Parsol 1789. Other compounds that provide some protection
against UVA include oxybenzone, sulisobenzone and dioxybenzone. These compounds tend to end in the suffix “-zone” (unless the name methylanthranilate is used, which it usually isn’t.) Oxybenzone, sulisobenzone and dioxybenzone only provide partial protection against UVA with the best protection being afforded by avobenzone.


We can sum this up by saying that the “-ates” protect against sunburn and skin cancer and the “-zones” protect against premature aging. You need the “-ates” in the summer and the “-zones” all year round.


Look for the word “broad spectrum” on the label. The other thing that you have to know is that a different rating system is used for UVA protection. The PF factor gives you information about
the degree of protection that you will have against UVB. The measure of UVA protection is expressed by the "A" Protection Factor (APF). The APF is not listed on sunscreen labels at present, but one could hope that this information will be provided to consumers in the near future.


Finally, we come to the sunblocks. The best sunblocks contain titanium dioxide and/or micronized zinc oxide. They should be present in concentrations of 1 to 3%. Because these are blocks and not screens, they provide excellent broad spectrum protection.


You can see that for true “broad spectrum” coverage (i.e. protection against most UVA and UVB) a combination of ingredients might be required. Some of the more advanced preparations will contain some of the UVB sunscreens, an anti-UVA (avobenzone being the best) and/or a sunblock (zinc oxide or titanium dioxide).


Finally, the sunscreen must be properly applied:

A sufficient quantity must be used. An adequate amount must be applied evenly. The Food and Drug Administration recommends that 1,000 microliter be applied per 50 square centimeters of skin.
What does this actually mean in practical terms? The average adult face has an area equal to a piece of typing paper (try draping a piece of typing paper over your face and you’ll see that I’m right.) That translates into about 810 to 820 square centimeters. That in turn would translate into 1.6 cc of
sunscreen for the face. A teaspoon equals 5cc. If you were to be on the safe side and apply 2cc you would be applying about 4/10 of a teaspoon of sunscreen to cover an area the size of your
face. Don’t assume that the PF or APF can be doubled by applying a second layer of sunscreen. Twice as much sunscreen isn’t going to turn a sunscreen with a SPF factor of 15 into a sunscreen
with an SPF of 30. Recognize that sunscreen.

Jason

want to tell you about a new Total Block spf60 and spf65 (one is clear and one is tinted)..the Acad of Derm had these in Wash. in Mar...and coworkers brought back samples and brochure, etc.  there is a website: www.fallene.com or www.totalblock.com   It put out by Fallene Ltd.  full spectrum protection for photosensitive individuals.  I will try and see how I like it too.

Jean

Yes! and give us all the info on how well you like it! I would be interested in trying it, too. I'm using TySilk at the moment with an SPF of 45 with Titanium dioxide. It's a bit pricey but it really blends in well unlike Skinceutical's Ultimate Defense.

Jason

1417

WebSites  Mar 14, 2001

Hi.  would like to pass on 2 informative websites:  The Skin Site tm.    and American Academy of Dermatology {click on patient information and/or professional information}..will lead to all other type of info.   info on chemical peels, other procedures, skin problems, etc.  It goes into depth and detail as to various skin problems and offers options and info..from ageing skin to acne and all in between.

Jean

1412

Skincare Product  Mar 12, 2001

Hello....This comes to you from my arsenal of wrinkle creams!  I have discovered a very effective product some may like to give it a go.  I have used; via samples provided..and I LIKE IT
EXTREMELY MUCH... it actually does assist in 'lift'..or gives skin a little boost appearance of non-sag.  The first lifting serum I have ever used that benefited in this department (I have not yet used them all, of course, so this is observation from THIS one.)  It is by Sothy's.  It is called Intenspheres 2 ..there is a night and day serum.  also an excellent cream for sensitive skin called: Immuniscience..makes skin feel like velvet.  It is pricey...but most of them are going to be...thought I would like to pass it on.  I have access to many samples of various products of this type offered...when I find a good one, I will pass it on!  There are a couple of sites that sell Sothy's products...and they are very generous with samples it seems as well, plus providing extra info on other products they offer.

Jean

Jean

Thanks for the tip. I looked for the Sothy site which is www.sothy.com (whew - took a lot of research LOL). I couldn't find the product "Intenspheres" that you described for lifting. There
was a lift serum with retinol and vitamin C. Is that it? Since retinol and vitamin c have been used in lots of products, how is this one more effective in lifting?

Have you tried CP serum yet. Do you like it? How did you like the Perricone products? - I saw your comments about trying them on the cosmetic board.

Thanks for the great tips - keep 'm comming!

Carol
IP: 165.121.115.131

Hi Carol:

No the one I use does not contain Retinol...they have several products that do.  It IS Hard to locate.  Go to DiamondCosmetics.com..I think there are some other links there also.  Intenspheres 2 helps combat slackening of facial tissue.  It is an energizing gel serum (Raffermine complex and
Phytoceramides),.....what???? yea.  anyway...whatever, it is excellent product.   Check out the area where you live, there are probably spas in your area that have these products readily available. I will look on our literature and see if there is a specific website other than what we have tried...or an address.  I will post it tomorrow.

Jean

.....Forgot to answ one of your qstns.  no, I have not tried CPserum...do you like?  is it beneficial?  I have really dry skin and thought maybe would not work well for me.   I do use a Vit C..just not that one.  I have read a lot about it and it is highly recommended.  On Dermadoctor.com..there is a lot of very useful and excellent information on a vast variety of products and procedures.  Go to Articles .and about everything you would want to learn about any type skin regimen is in there...for about every problem. well written, and gives the upsides and the downsides of various procedures and treatment options.

Jean

Carol...I looked at Diamond.com...the Intenspheres is not there; sorry...but it is there on  http://www.joybeauty.com.
Jean

1407

skincare link  Mar 7, 2001    

Hi Deb and all you flexers out there. I've learned so much from Deb and this board and thought I too can share some info on the latest in skincare. Be a well informed consumer and research the
stuff before considering trying skin products! P.S. I've been flexin' and am lookin' good for my age!(At least people tell me that anyway!) :)     

http://www.happi.com/special/1992.htm

Teresa
IP: 63.107.193.115

1402

Retin-A    Feb 27, 2001    

Hi Becky:

Thank you for the one-year update.  It was very encouraging.  I noticed that you said Retin-A helps with breakouts.  I didn't know that!  How often do you apply it and where do you get Retin-A?

Imani's Mom
IP: 216.164.247.19

Hi Imani's Mom:

A doctor will have to write you a prescription for Retin-A, but if you don't want to go that route, you can go through the search engines and order it off the internet. Someone posted recently www.hairpharmacy.com as a good place to order Retin-A. 

When I started using Retin-A, I believe I started using it at night time every other day, but you will have to try and see for yourself.


Retin-A is actually an acne medication but it was found to help wrinkles too.  Renova is the same thing as Retin-A but Renova has a moisturizer in it.  Retin-A does not.  If you do decide to try
Retin-A, go with the lowest dose first because it can irritate your skin causing dryness and peeling. But once you get used to it, you'll love how it plumps up your skin, smoothing out fine lines as well as clearing up acne.  Also, you will need to stay out of the sun or wear a sunscreen.

Becky

1401

To Jean Feb 26, 2001       IP: 205.129.112.85

Hi Jean,

You said in an earlier post that you work for a dermatologist? Do they know at work that you are doing FlexEffect and what do they think of what it's done for you so far?

Sadie

Hi Sadie

there are varied opinions on whether or not facial ex can tighten facial skin..on one hand one expert reminds me it is repeated motion, like things that helped cause wrinkles in the first place (there is also some opinion that facial muscles get more ex than any other in the body)...etc..etc.  However, there
are ALSO those Drs. I see and converse with daily that explain that the face, neck and chin muscles respond to resistance training just like the other muscles in the body....but unlike other muscles that
can become bulky with exercise, tiny facial muscles become flat and compact as they grow stronger.  Anyway, facial exercise are generally intended to improve sagging, not superficial wrinkles...so if sagging and drooping and crinkling are your problem, facial ex is a good alternative to cosmetic
surgery....especially since there are so many other ways to tackle wrinkles!  The general concensus seems to be is a good and sensible route!  Yes, they are aware of my exercising.  And the fact I regularly do the massages is obvious.  Concensus also seems to be that my skin is pretty.  Of course, I use skin care products geared toward my sun damaged skin...and I get chemical peels..but yes, flexing does really enhance the appearance and condition of your skin..all additional things you can employ to assist in this are also an added plus.  And even if no one thought it was a 'good thing', I wouldn't care..because I KNOW BETTER.

Jean:0)

1387

Dr. Perricone's site   Feb 21, 2001

im new to the boards so i hope i'm posint to the right area.  anywho' someone mentioned Dr. Perricone's site and lack of before and after pictures...i contacted Cheryl and she says they are in
the process of doing so..and also will have the Doctor's line of antioxidant and low glycemic neutriceuticals up and running soon also.  i'm going ahead and ordering and trying some of the
products and am anxious to see what the results will be.  i take lipoic acid, and have for some time, plus ester C, Carnosine,vit E and other antioxidants plus vitamins, and soy supplement for protein and soy benefits. i'm 51 and just the other day two coworkers told me they thought i was in my late thirties.  I see the wrinkles and changes, but it seems others don't/aren't as judgmental about how i appear. (my sister tells me i must use a microscope to find the lines etc. lol. she is a ardent sun bather
and im sheet pale) anyway i'm very interested in the facial exercises and plan to explore this site extensively and maybe try some exercises...im worried about pulling the skin and stretching it....any input on this????

Patty
IP: 63.196.11.50

Hi Patty

Since you're not pulling and stretching the skin, but actually pushing and pulling against muscle, the exercises when done correctly, have no negative effects on the skin. In fact, you'll see positive results on the skin as the muscles firm and lift. If you were simply taking the top layers of skin devoid of
muscle and pulling on them, you might have some problems, but when you flex, you're challenging the deeper structures. I've done the exercises for the last two years and have NOT put a single line on my face at all.

Jason

1372

Retin-A    Feb 5, 2001

Anyone interested in bypassing a doctor, you can get Retin-A without a prescription for 3 tubes for $55.00 at
www.hairpharmacy.com   Just thought someone might be interested.....

Suzanne
IP: 152.163.206.18

1370

Facial Scrub  Feb 4, 2001     

Hi Deb:

I use a soft Facial scrub every night on my normal to dry skin ( I have clogged pores). I'm not sure if this is too harsh. What have you heard about the use of facial scrubs on a regular basis?

Thanks,

Tina
IP: 205.188.199.179

Hi Tina: 

I'm not Deb, but was wondering what type facial scrub you use?  If you have dry skin is best not to use a clay based one.  Also some scrubs, even though the granules in them are tee tiny, is sometimes enough to tear the skin.  Do you use a strictly moisturizing scrub?  that is good.  Everyone's skin responds differently to various topical applications, but I would feel a facial scrub would be sufficient once or twice a wk. do you use any moisturizing masks, say once per wk?

Jean

Hi Tina,

You may want to check out the skin care boards and get Drs. Pickart and Pappas's opinions. They have some wonderful advice on products and their uses. Dr. Pappas who specializes in oils and
natural products might be able to advise you. I like visiting his board because he is by far and away the most knowledgeable person on essential oils that I've heard about. I wouldn't trust anyone, and I mean anyone, else to give me the lowdown on such products. Since he sells mostly to other companies in bulk for their products, he's really not out to make a buck at an individual's expense, like some other sites I've seen who overcharge dramatically. You might want to check out what he would recommend.

Thanks so much.

Jason

1368

Generic Retin-A Feb 3, 2001     

Please don't be mad at me if I shouldn't have put this message on here.  I wasn't sure which one to use.  I just wanted to tell everyone that I asked my doctor for Retin A and when I went to get it, it was a generic called Altinac Cream.  I wasn't going to get it but the pharmacist said that alot of people are saying that it does the same thing as Retin A but they like it better.  Insurance won't pay for Retin A but it does this.  Has anyone tried it yet and can tell me if it really works the same?

Jo Anne
IP: 64.12.103.182

Jo Anne

I wrote this down and am going to ask where I work tomorrow (Dermatology).  I will let you know tomorrow pm what I find out.  I am curious too.

Jean 

Jo Anne

I asked today at my office.  No one ever heard of it..perhaps is something only newly available in your part of the country?  Some things do begin on the W. Coast a lot sooner than in my area.  It is sometimes 2 yrs before we have avail what begins in Los Angeles or that vicinity.  sorry I couldn't help.

Jean

1360

Sunblock Jan 29, 2001     

Someone told me recently that a lot of research has been done into sunblock creams, and they've found that they are carcinogenic. I'm rather worried now, because I've used a sunblock for ages hoping to avoid cancer, not to cause it. Does anyone know of any natural sunblocks that one can use. I still want protection from the suns rays, but I don't want to keep putting harmful chemicals onto my skin

Alex.
IP: 62.253.128.5

Hi Alex

The only study to date that I'm aware of was a study done in Europe (Sweden or Denmark?) with the sunblock Octyl Methoxycinnamate. The study did NOT show it to be carcinogenic but on lab animals did show that it killed some skin cells. This study should not be used to incriminate all chemicals used in sunblocks. Nor should it be concluded that Octyl Methoxycinnamate works the same in humans. Sunblocks according to the American Cancer society is still the BEST way to prevent skin cancer from sun exposure. Obviously, more testing needs done.

While there are some natural products that have some limited blocking/or preserving effects on the skin from sun exposure, none of them are nearly as effective in preventing skin damage as sunblocks. The chance that you've done any harm to your skin is probably minimal compared to the damage that you've prevented in using sunblock. If this chemical is a concern to you, you may want to find something different absent Octyl Methoxycinnamate. Zinc Oxide is considered very safe since it is poorly absorbed by the skin. It also is a broad spectrum UVA and UVB protectant. You may want to check out this site: www.thegreenscene.com/shows/038.html

Good luck!

Jason

1332

Betty question on CoQ 10  Jan-2001    

Hi Betty,

I know this off topic, but my husband is dentist could you please tell me what Coq10 has done for your dental health. I also agree with your comments on the myriad produx out there claiming to rejuvenate tired skin. Thanks

Pam
IP: 216.177.28.42

Hi Pam

I don't know if this was meant for me, but I use CoQ10 and I have gum disease and it has lessen my pockets.

Bettie

1328

Collangen / Elastin Jan 7, 2001     

Does anyone know how these things are regenerated permanently or if they even can be?   This is why I ask. I have noticed several false claims as I have been looking into better skin care.


For instance, I take CoQ10 for dental problems. It works for that, but now all of a sudden manufacturers are claiming it prevents wrinkles.  I have been using this product forever and no where has it been indicated to help wrinkles.

Secondly, I keep seeing products which contain collagen and elastin and it has been stated by everyone that these products can't be absorbed in the skin so I was wondering why put them in
products in the first place.

Observation: it really is amazing how the cosmetic industry uses all types of tricks to suck consumers in.

Bettie
IP: 38.144.151.137

1325

Jean, how are Esential Oils going?   Jan 6, 2001

Hi Jean,  I enjoy your contributions so much and was wondering how creating your own essential oil blends has been going?  I've been inspired by your experiences and humour on this board!  Thanks for your sharing and kindness. 

Dawn
IP: 64.26.165.64

Hi Dawn.  

Well, as for my essential oils.....I have yet to personally, physically mix the first thing!  Been trying to
figure out the 'appropriate dilutions' for 3 wks!  Reading..{taking a course)..left to my own devices, I am pretty pitiful at this stage. HOWEVER, fortunately for me, I have a super excellent advisor and teacher who is an Esthetician and has credentials.and is also my boss. LOL....so.....learning...with much help.  I have stocked my 'lab'...and ready to go.  Have all the necessary little blending bottles and so on and so on and so on. lol.  At this point, I am very much under supervision!  I will let you
know how I progress, or regress, whichever proves to be the case.  Bottem line is I am having time of my life, so who cares?  I will conjure up something fantastic, or something totally disgusting.....but I will enjoy it!..(my first blend, my teacher actually mixed it FOR me)..but next one, I will do! (0:

Jean
IP: 152.163.207.183

1321

DMAE and Alpha Lipoic  Acid + Ester C   Jan 3, 2001   

Hi Deb, Olympia, Jason + everyone interested in wrinkle creams,

Okay, no scolding. Yes I've been away forever. Been very busy. No excuse right? Your board is vastly improved incidentally.

Regarding wrinkle creams, I just read the 'Wrinkle Cure' by Dr. Perricone (he's a dermatologist who has devoted over 15 years to researching natural ways to prevent wrinkles). Has anyone heard of him or his book? Perricone advocates DMAE serums for lifting/toning/actually supposed to lift muscles,(DMAE occurs naturally in fish like salmon). He also advocates Alpha Lipoic Acid (in creams and internally) for wrinkles and the only form of Vitamin C he advocates is Ester C. Ester C is more than a water based antioxident. It also anti oxidizes fat in cells while preventing inflamation. It is theoretically not only a more stable form of C, it is better for wrinkles because it combats fat in cells (which leak out as skin thins in older years). It also prevents inflamation. Normal L ascorbic acid can be counter productive in his opinion because it can actually inflame, which is partially what ages and wrinkles skin. There's a lot of info about this in his book.

His book is quite informative - probably more informative than his website - but you can check it out at www.nvperriconemd.com

Let me know what you guys think. I'm particularly intrigued by the potentials of DMAE, some of which I excerped here:

". . DMAE can quickly and dramatically improve the appearance of sagging skin,. As an added bonus, DMAE boosts the effects of other antioxidants, resulting in increased smoothness, brightness
and line reduction . . . .DMAE is an antioxidant membrane stabilizer: It preevents breakdown of the cell plasma membrane and the resulting production of arachidonic acid and a bunch of
pro-inflammatory mediators. When mixed with other amino acids and nutrients, it has a dramatic firming effect on skin."

Be well everyone and happy new millenium to all of you,
Idelle
IP: 165.121.112.31

Hi Idelle: 

good to hear from you again.  Yes, I have read Dr Perricone's book.  Unfortunately, I loaned it out to someone and never got it back.  However...I have the products.  Use them alternately.  I like them!   I especially like the yrs of anti-aging research behind them..clinical testing and scientific
proof.  His products have definite benefits...at least in my case they have.  He advocates the 'layered rejuvenation technology'.  to restore and repair surface appearance and to increase tone and firmness of skin.  Effects are continuous.   Really good skin does come from within also..i.e. natural moisture and supported by good circulation.  Everything takes its toll, (but it doesn't have to win!)..I like Dr Perricone's concept because skin IS a living organ and does renew itself every 6 wks!   It can
regenerate itself literally from the inside out. (if skin is healthy).  There are a lot of excellent products, but many existing ones affect only the surface of your skin and cover over the underlying problems.  From what all I have read it is my understanding the only way to rejuvenate your skin is to reach
below the surface and work at the cellular level..where all things are decided as to health..and appearance..of your skin.  To my feeble brain, that takes the knowledge and guidance of a doctor.... and research...and proven products.

Jean

Hi Idelle

I was disappointed in his site. The site itself is slick without much substance. Instead of the Vogue models plastered on each page, why didn't he take the opportunity to show real before and after photos. Additionally, under his science section, there's very little science and no research supporting his product. Maybe he intends the interested buyer to buy his book to get the information. If so, he really gets ya then. His products are rather expensive to boot. $430 for a package of his products seem ludicrously high.

Would like to read his book just to see what he has to say. I was disappointed that his web site was so uninformative.

Jason

Hi Jason: 

The book is much more informative.  If I still had mine, I would send it to you.  Did you use the Clinical Creations site?  I also have a lot of literature that came w/products. If you'd care to peruse them, I will mail them to you.  His products are pricey...figure he must pay for all the advertising. (0:  His products do seem very good, the ones I have used..have not tried the entire line.  Another very good line of skin care products is M.D. Forte.   Are you familiar with them?  One quick qstn:  is the
copper peptide beneficial for you?  Been reading a lot about it and the Derm/Cosm Dept where I work is going to begin dispensing these products in the near future.

Jean

Hi Jean

I really haven't used my copper peptide cream regularly enough to determine how effective it is for me. I've stuck to my Retin A because it keeps my skin really clear. I've heard very positive things about copper peptides. My sister uses it religiously and seems to like it very much. I'm going to the library this afternoon to see if I can find his book, btw. There are so many miracles-in-jar claims these days that I find myself perhaps overly skeptical. Any info you can send my way would be
appreciated though!

Thanks,

Jason

Hi Jason: 

I will send all the info I have on the Perricone products ..I had even written them initially requesting a list of ingredients in the products...which they responded to by sending me an entire list of ingred of every product he developed.  (that sort of impressed me, as I did not expect a response).  I don't
know how to actually digest all the information...other than to just try them and see for myself any benefits I experience.  I have used, do like.  But again, have not used  l o n g  time.

Jean

Hi there!

I bought two of his products ...after reading the book.  AND they are the most expensive stuff I own!  Here's what I've seen so far over the last 2 months....not that much. Certainly not to the
extent one would expect from the descriptions in the book and certainly none of this 1 hour later stuff the sales person will tell you. But in favor of his Vit. C cream. It's the only one I can use on my eye area. It does not sting. And his creams do seem to be lasting quite awhile. I'm using the Face Firming Activator and the Eye creams. So far using them fairly regularly 2x day I'm less than halfway through one bottle. I'd guess a bottle will last 4 months.Will I resupply once this is used up. I doubt it (except for the Vit C eye cream...maybe. I've seen similar ingredients in Jason Natural cosmetics(I think it was that label. I'm going to try that or something much more reasonable in price...maybe copper peptide.

BTW...the book is interesting. He basically recommends no sugar, more protein and take
antioxidants.  When I get some more time I'll write down his main recommendation if anyone is interested.

Sorry for the long windedness....I just would hate for anyone to spend the money on his cosmetics just based on his book.

Bye for now
Lynn
IP: 64.81.26.83


Jason: Regarding Perricone's book, I don't think it would be in the library, but I found it at Barnes and Noble. It's fast reading. If you go to a bookstore and read it over a latte (I know bad for you), you'll get most of what you need - or at least a buz.

Lynn, Jean and everyone: Thanks for the info. I was thinking of getting the firming DMAE serum - sounds like it didn't lift as much as the claim Lynn? Regarding the Ester Vit C eye and face cream, the only reason I am tempted to get it is the claim that Ester C is a better antioxidant than L Ascorbic Acid - being fat soluble and it is also claimed to be more stable and a better antiinflamitory antioxidant as well. According to Perricone, inflamation is one the most aging free radical bombardmants to the skin there is - it's what cross links skin the most. At least, that's the theory. But then I've heard so much about Cellex and skinceuticals being the best and most stable C formulas. Does anyone have an opinion about Ester C versus the L ascorbic acid in Cellex and other Vit C preparations?

Perricone's dietary advice is basically the Zone diet, which I agree with. Sugar and too many starches are the biggest agers in my opinion. And my brother was a juvenile diabetic so I know first
hand. And I do not eat much meat. Fish is a beautifier for the skin - especially sardines (loaded with RNA). And other than Omega-3 fish, I'm a big advocate of soy - full of beautifying and longevity promoting phyto-estrogens. After that loading up on a ton of fresh veggies and fruits will indeed improve the complexion (not to mention keep you healthy) - at least it works for me.

Jean: Thanks for the informative email. I'll write you soon. What I'm most interested in is the concept of DMAE being a muscle contractor/tightner - but then the concept does sound kind of
weird since if you look up the research on DMAE as an internal supplement, DMAE (found in fish) helps with cognition - I never read anything about DMAE for muscle tightening before Perricone's
book.

Everyone: What internal supplements do all of you take? I may start taking alpha lipoic acid and some of the other supplements like CLA to help fight glycation and burn fat. So many interesting supplements out there to promote longevity and good skin. Has anyone heard of carnosene? It's supposed to be one of the best supplements out there for youthful skin and longevity. I called Perricone's office and everyone there takes carnosene even though it's not in his book. His book was written prior to some of the newest research. Go the the Life Extension Institute Website to find out more about all these supplements - I think it's one of the best websites out there - and you can do a search for skin on the site too. But then again, eating lots of fresh veggies and fruits will provide much of the same benefits in my opinion.

Take care everyone,
Idelle

Hi Idelle

Nope I wouldn't say any lift or at least not any I could notice...and for $90 a bottle it would be nice to notice !! So save money on that one. I have no idea if the Ester C is better than other C's. I like the way it goes in (no stinging or stickyness)...it's in an oily base that absorbs fairly quickly. I know somewhre out there I've seen cheaper, much cheaper DMAE products.  OR mix your own if you want to experiment.

Poor Deb! I know she trying to get these discussions over to the skin care board ....but we're so conditioned to loving hers!!! Okay..next time we promise!:)

Lynn

IP: 64.81.26.83

1320

Does anyone Know?  Jan 1, 2001    

If wrinkle creams have to be used forever to maintain the results?  The reason I asked is that I bought some cream and basically I have almost achieved the results I was seeking.  What concerns me is that it only took a week or two and, thus, I wonder if I have to keep using the product to have the results I want.

Bettie
IP: 38.144.151.137

Hi Bettie

Re: wrinkle creams and if you must use from now on....maybe someone knows the answ..I would guess yes...But this would be a great qstn for Dr. Pickard on Deb's Ask The Professionals board.
I, too, would be anxious to hear the response!

Jean

Hi Jean

I started hearing all of this stuff about Retinol A and now I am kind of afraid of continued use.  I stopped using it for now.  I'll have to rethink whether I will continue.  Thanks for the board suggestion though.

Bettie
IP: 38.144.151.137

1313

Retin A  Dec 21, 2000 

Hello Deb, In the past 2.5 years I have done lots of research and been under stress because of lots of damagedone by Retin-A to the tender area underneath my eyes. I have both a degree in Chemistry and in Chemical Engineering,so I started using and analyzing many substances both internal and external to rebuild the skin under my eyes that has really been damaged by Retin-A over 2 years ago.  Has anyone elsethinned the skin out using Retin-A here? 

Diane
IP: 165.121.238.56

Hi Diane,

I've read a tremendous amount of research on Retin A and have never seen any documented cases indicating that Retin A has caused skin damage of the kind you describe to any area to which it was applied. In fact, over 30 years of research has consistently proven the opposite. I wonder what other
environmental factors might be at play here. I also wonder why you believe it was Retin A that caused the damage. As a chemist and chemical engineer, is it possible that you have consistently
been exposed to toxic or noxious chemicals deleterious to the skin? Or have you attained the age where previous damage to the skin becomes more readily apparent? Regardless, I would consult a
dermatologists who can properly diagnose your condition. Remember, that over 90% of damage to the skin is caused by the sun. Exposure as a child, adolescent, and adult adds up to considerable damage that begins to really show in the late twenties through the thirties and progressively becomes more obvious as the years pass.

Jason

Hi Diane

Hi Diane:  Have you ever tried Renova?  The following is copied from a book entitled, AGELESS, by Elaine Brumberg, beauty consultant and cosmetics consumer advocate:   THE EXCEPTION TO
THE RULE:  I quote:  There is one product and only one product that has proven its safety and efficacy to the FDA: Renova.  Ortho pharmaceuticals actually conducted the research and proved
to the FDA that tretinoin, the active ingred. in Renova and its sister product, Retin A actually reduces fine lines, surface roughness and age spots.  Ortho spent billions to accomplish this, but they now have the patent on the only FDA approved wrinkle cream.   Experts disagree on whether Renova which is only available by Rx does anything more than a strong AHA,but Ortho has a captive audience in the consumers who have used it..unquote.  For this and much more info on skin care products, consult her book.   Is excellently helpful.

Jean

1294

To Diane Dec 8, 2000 

I want to thank you for your suggestion of Natures Gift.com.  I LOVE that site.   I have used oils for years and find that site is incredibly helpful and full of great ideas for oils.  I am reading Deb's book and starting the facial massage.   I got a new bottle of rosehip oil and am using it during the facial massage.   I have always enjoyed your posts.  It is great now that the craziness is finally over.  We all have alot of valuable information to share with each other, thanks to Deb!!!! 

Jae

IP: 38.29.80.250 

Hi Jae

You're welcome. I was glad that I found that site and that Marge is offering information here. I'm just starting to experiment with EOs.

Diane

1193

Drug store Vs Department store Oct 24, 2000

Hi Jason:

Is there a major difference between drug store and dept store cosmetics? 

Many of the dept store's cosmetics seem to be expensive.  I'm sure that some things such as moisturizer, sunscreen or makeup are worth the $.  

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Frances

Hi Farnces

It is my perception that most department store and on-line products are WAY over priced. The same, and equally effective products, can be bought much more cheaply if you search, not even
very hard (or even made, look at Andrea's recipe).  Many of the "essential" oils can be purchased either at dime or health food stores. Honestly, I have a friend who puts crisco on her face three times a week at night, and insists it brings out a softer, healthier glow. Go figure! LOL.

Where moisturizers are concerned do NOT waste your money. Any light moisturizer will do. Same with Sunscreen. I often use NO-AD for Babies from Wal-Mart. It has zinc oxide in it along with a
list of other effective sunscreens.

Makeup? Now for that you'd have to ask Olympia, Deb, or really, just about anyone else! LOL.  I have heard though that Mabeline is just about the best overall, easy on the skin and does not
promote breakouts nearly as bad, but I don't know.

AHAs, retinols, all of that can be bought fairly cheaply over the counter. Do look for products that list percentages of active ingredients if you can find them.  Any product that does not have the active ingredient percentages is likely NOT to be as effective as it claims, so be careful.  If you're paying a lot of money for a product, make sure you know what the active ingredient percentage is; otherwise, you may very well get ripped off.

That's my take on cosmetics; buyer beware.

Jason

1188

Renova  Oct 24, 2000

Hi,

Found your site by looking for facial exercise stuff and want to put in my two cents about Renova and Retin A because I once used it and found it really dried out my skin and made some blue
veins underneath more visible.  I read what Judi said about essential oils too, and she is right, they help heal skin while most creams don't do very much at all.  By the way, if you read patient information on Renova they tell you NOT to use it if you're pregnant and that it also increases your sensitively to sunlight and also if you have eczema or sensitive skin you shouldn't use Renova at all!

Joan

1186

MSM products     Oct 24, 2000

Hello all- I just returned from the health food store "skin care"  section. While looking for MSM and aloe cream etc, I discovered a MSM cream. I don't know at all if it would be effective as making
your own, but it was inexpensive and I figured what the heck, its worth a try. It is an antioxidant formula with aloe vera gel, MSM, soybean oil, calendula extract, green tea extract, vit. e, vit. A.....Only natural products used etc... We shall see. Also noticed MSM soap, cream w/ glucosimine etc. Never even heard of MSM until Andrea!Also, I have looked at the Reborn board. It's a lovely web site and the products do sound great - just very out of my price range. The MSM cream also has glycerin, stearic acid cetyl alcohol etc - what ever must help keep it in a cream form- cause it is very much a cream, not a liquid. I just wanted everyone to know everything that's in it. It certainly does make skin feel smooth, but I've only just put it on, so stay tune

Lisa

1182

Skin care products Que's   Oct 23, 2000

H i.  I too am using Reborn products with very very nice results. There are many excellent products out there.  Is often hard to distinguish between hype and honest possibilities.  What is great for one may do literally nothing for another.  NV Perricone was mentioned.  I also have had wonderful results from these products.   Have you read the book THE WRINKLE CURE?  Perricone products are quite widely tested and research is constant and on-going.  I, personally, sort of lean toward alternating.  Not layering, of course, but alternating. If a product is very very good, than other age management products can be used, as it will be compatible with other products...enhance and assist.  Sort of like supplemental income is my thinking.   Just do your research.  Try....won't know a product's benefits until you try.   I personally lean toward Reborn (I have experienced the results)...I am not adverse to listening and experimenting other products however.  I am over 50, closer to 60....and I still have not found anything comparable to Renova (for me)...however, opted to not use.  Testing has never been done on people over 50 yrs of age for Renova....which is really odd seeing as that is the group that has the most to benefit?   go figure?  diet, exercise and lifestyle have a great deal to do with your skin as well....is a total package deal...not just skin care products.  have fun with it!!!!!

Jean

Hi Jean

Which Reborn products do you suggest using?

Jae

Jae:

I personally like the Skin Renewer (moisturizer)..the glycol cream. the sunscreen, of course. The C25 cream (or serum) is very softening.  The renewer seems to afford your skin a healthy glow for lack of a better description.  All feels good as well.  There are many others; try these and go from there based on your personal benefits with them.

Jean

1178

Andrea: MSM and Aloe  Oct 23, 2000

Whenever I add anything, including MSM, to aloe, the result is pure liquid.   Everything turns to the consistency of water.  What do you do that keeps the solution somewhat solid, or, at least, viscous?
Thanks

Diane

Diane / Leslie / Everyone,

I have been using Andrea's recipe with much skepticism and I am surprised to see that it is really great!!!  My skin looks better than it has for some time.  My skin is so sensitive, I am more than
surprised, I keep waiting for the "shoe to drop" but so far my skin just keeps looking better.  Wow!  It does get watery when MSM and vitamin C are added, but I don't mind that.  Even though it is
watery it is still strong and I like only having to use a light coat.

I, too, would like to add some Lipoic Acid.  I am going to the health food store today to find a 100% Lipoic hopefully powder to add.  The recipe is so good that I hate to mess with it, but will
try a little to see if it is better.


Dr. Perricone?  I bought his serums about 2 months ago and already returned the eye lotions.  Too harsh, made my skin look very wrinkled.   Hated it.  I have the Lipoic serum, but it is really strong.  I can only use it every few days or so and then my face turns red.  Also, it really stinks!!   I stopped when I started on  Andrea's recipe.  It seems to be so much better.  So far . . .

I have the best luck with natural products. I use Aubrey the most.  It is 100% organic and is GREAT.  I love oils around my eye area and use their rose oil, it works.  Also their masks are incredible.

I would like to try the Reborn products if they are good.  Which ones do people recommend???? 

Jae

1174

Jason re: products  Oct 22, 2000

Jason...ahh so...I gotcha.  Read your response to Judi. Excellent response.    Oftentimes we ALL must try out products, including retin A or whatever....sort out for ourselves the differences between hype and honest possibilities...which is not always easy to do.  TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS is always good place to jump off from!!!!  And watch.....and LISTEN...often you will hear things perhaps not especially meant to be relayed!  Is why differing opinions and discussion are so beneficial.  thx Jason for all your candid comments!  I love it!   

Jean  

1172

And more research...ugh   Oct 20, 2000


In the interests of research concerning sun screens, a study was recently conducted and published in the Journal of Investigative Dermatology July 2000 Volume 115, Number 1. The researches were
testing the sunscreens Octyl Methoxycinnamate and terephthalylidene dicamphor sulfonic acid at an SPF of 4. Both these sunscreens, in my opinion, are limited in their ability to block UVA rays, but this is what they found:


These findings support the continued use of sunscreens for nonmelanoma skin cancer prevention. Despite a small sample size, Young and colleagues have generated statistically significant evidence that sunscreen protection against erythema (i.e, redness or sunburn) correlates with protection against UVR-induced dipyrimidine DNA lesions in human skin. Furthermore, UVB and broad-spectrum (UVB + UVA) sunscreens with comparable SPFs (again that of only 4) seem to confer the same protection against DNA damage. In support of their conclusions, the authors
cite a recent 4.5-year randomized, controlled trial showing that application of a broad-spectrum SPF 16 sunscreen reduced the total number of squamous cell carcinomas (SCCs) by 40%.[3] This
same study, however, showed no reduction in the number of patients developing SCCs, nor did it show any reduction in the incidence of basal cell carcinomas.[3] On another cautionary note, other studies have suggested that sunscreen use may actually increase the risk of developing malignant melanoma,[4] leading to speculation that UVA may play a role in melanoma induction.[5]
For the future generation of sunscreens, perhaps protecting against erythema won't be enough. In this regard, Young and colleagues are quick to remind us that SPF should not be equated with CPF ("cancer protection factor").

That's exactly right. So please use a physical sunblock like zinc oxide or titanium dioxide.

Jason

Jason

At the risk of sounding like an idiot, how can the use of sunscreen increase the incidence of malignant melanoma if you don't use it as an excuse to spend too much time in the sun?                       
Terry H   

Terry H

That's because not all sunscreens/sunblocks are created equal and most blocks will allow a fair degree of UVA or UVB rays through. The only blocks that provide wide protect of both UVA
and UVB rays are Parasol (Avobenzone), zinc oxide, or titanium dioxide. Therefore, you should look at products that contain these chemicals. Octyl Methoxycinnamate, in and of itself, is NOT an effective block. Because Octyl Methoxycinnamate and terephthalylidine do not block UVA rays effectively, their use will do little to prevent squamous cell carcinomas of the skin. However, they do well in preventing damaged DNA induced melanomas, so their use is good in one sense, not so good in another.


Again, you can avoid all this by using a physical sunblock. Recent studies I've read show that zinc oxide is a 100% effective block against all UVA and UVB rays. Titanium dioxide prevents nearly as much and Parasol comes in last, not protecting quite as well as either zinc oxide or titanium dioxide.

Hope that explains some of it.

Jason

Hi Jason...thanks for letting us be privy to this info which is only for those in the medical field.   I'm going to try and view it.  I personally use Retin A - .025 version and do as you do - cycle on and off.   Many Thanks!

Simone

Hi Jason:

I just tried to view it but unfortunately couldn't get in to see the information.  Do you think that this info could be copied and pasted so that we could view it permanently on the Workshop Pages
for Skincare/Products/Cosmetics (I forget the exact  title)?  Perhaps there could be a sub-topic called Retin A: Current Medical Research Articles or something to that effect. 


Until we can actually view the research, would you share with us what the findings were - super condensed version in lay terms?  Were they the same as you've been stating or have they found even
more benefits to the consistent usage of Retin A.

Thanks in advance.

Simone 

1171

Solution/Skin Care    Oct 20, 2000

Hi fellow flexors.  I have found the answer and solution to all of our recent dilemmas and controversies and 'discussions' re: skin care products.   USE THEM ALL!!!!!  skin care and skin care products are supposed to be fun!   I USED to have fun with this...I am becoming too serious about it I have decided.   So I have 3 or 4 I truly love for the benefits they provide me...and I have decided I am going to just use them all and alternate!  End of dilemma.  I am sure skin gets bored and tired of the same old 'diet', just as bodies do...skin cells probably cringe up and say "oh good lord, it's alpha hydroxys for supper again; get out the barf bags!'  Pooh on it.  I am going back to having fun with skin care products.  I have an acquaintance/friend who will probably bomb me out of the water for saying this.....but....even though I do not use it any more (my own personal choice)....I have found nothing comparable to Renova.   But this, too, is a personal choice for everyone. About all the 'proof' etc that seems to be sought after here..please also realize flex effect is a tool....it is exercise for the face....our trainers are not our personal miracle workers...this is not a spectator sport...it is hands on contact.  Only each of us can judge if it is good for us.  success story's are great...but you still have to do it yourself.

Jean

Ahh Righty then.....let's have fun. LOL.

Jason

1170

More info. for those interested.  Oct 20, 2000

I don't know if anyone will be able to access this site from here; however, if anyone is interested in some latest information concerning Retin A, here it is.

http://promini.medscape.com/drugdb/drug_uses_dosage.asp?
DrugCode=5%2D2468-&-DrugName=RETIN%2DA+TOPICAL-&-DrugType=1

I get this as part of my subscription to medical sites.

Jason

Jason

Hi Jason...thanks for letting us be privy to this info which is only for those in the medical field.   I'm going to try and view it.  I personally use Retin A - .025 version and do as you do - cycle on and off.   Many Thanks!

Simone

Hi Jason:

I just tried to view it but unfortunately couldn't get in to see the information.  Do you think that this info could be copied and pasted so that we could view it permanently on the Workshop Pages
for Skincare/Products/Cosmetics (I forget the exact  title)?  Perhaps there could be a sub-topic called Retin A: Current Medical Research Articles or something to that effect. 


Until we can actually view the research, would you share with us what the findings were - super condensed version in lay terms?  Were they the same as you've been stating or have they found even
more benefits to the consistent usage of Retin A.

Thanks in advance.

Simone

Simone,
                                                           
Here is the information on Retin A for Photoaging taken off Medscape.com. I thought it was interesting. Apparently you can't get to the site I had posted without being a member.

Photoaging


Dosage of tretinoin should be individualized according to the patient’s response and tolerance, depending on skin type, degree of photoaging present, race, and/or age of the patient. For the
treatment of photoaging, tretinoin is applied once daily before retiring, using a pea-sized amount of the 0.05% emollient cream to cover the entire face lightly; use of the drug at night reduces the probability of photoinactivation. Patients should be advised that use of larger than recommended amounts will not speed results but can cause overdosage. Tretinoin also has been applied topically as a 0.1% cream for the treatment of photoaging, but an emollient preparation at this concentration
currently is not commercially available. Because of the drug’s potential to cause severe irritation, erythema, and peeling, some clinicians suggest that the frequency of tretinoin administration may be reduced to once every other night or every third night in patients who do not tolerate daily therapy well.


Patients in whom it has been necessary to temporarily discontinue or reduce the frequency of tretinoin applications may reinstate therapy at reduced dosage once they are able to tolerate the drug
again. Mild scaling can be used as a guide to determine the level of tolerance. Use of moisturizers concomitantly at night to counteract the drying effects of tretinoin may dilute the therapeutic effect of the drug; therefore, some clinicians suggest that moisturizers be used during the day in an attempt to
minimize such potential interference.


Within 3—4 weeks, some clinicians have noted that patients may be able to tolerate greater amounts of cream, although the manufacturer does not recommend any increase in the amount applied. Changes in frequency or amount of application should be closely monitored by careful observation of the patient’s response and tolerance, and the patient should be advised not to exceed the recommended dosage. Therapeutic response occurs gradually over the next 6 months of therapy, and clinically important decreases in fine wrinkles may not be apparent for 8 weeks. The manufacturer reports that a maximum response occurs within 6 months and that deterioration of histologic improvement (e.g., atypical melanocyte or keratinocytes, increase in dermal elastosis)has occurred in patients receiving the drug for longer than 48 weeks; other clinicians have reported continued clinical or histologic improvement for longer periods. Although most of the palliative effects of tretinoin on fine wrinkles, mottled hyperpigmentation, and tactile roughness of skin will be lost in the majority of patients once the drug and accompanying comprehensive skin care and sun avoidance are discontinued, the manufacturer states that safety and efficacy of topical tretinoin
therapy beyond 48 weeks have not been established. After the maximum response has been achieved, maintenance therapy of 2—4 applications weekly has been suggested for some patients.

Jason

1159

To Everyone  Oct 19, 2000

These "discussions" regarding skin care, Retin A, skin cancer, research etc. can go on forever.  There will ALWAYS be differences of opinions in the public and within the medical community about - everything. Just a suggestion, when people get rude and stop discussing and start become insulting I think the best advice is to ignore it.  No responding, just move on. To respond only
creates more openings for discord.  It is not about winning.  This a board for discussion, let's kindly allow each other the benefits of our own experiences.  It is so great and wonderful to hear what
other people have tried.  We are going to benefit and are so fortunate to have this opportunity to learn from each other.(Where else would we have heard about Andrea's recipe or people's unusual
exercising techniques?) What a great and rare gift we have.

Janet

Janet

Amen! Amen! and Good Lord, Amen! Let's have done with it! I'm ready to talk about ANYTHING else. LOL

Jason

1157

Where I get my MSM and other things   Oct 19, 2000

A few people have asked me where I get my MsM from so I will post that information here for those interested - along with a few bits of further information on MsM as well as the source of
the info...here goes!

The company I purchase from may or may not sell it in smaller quantities - call them and ask.  I have always purchased a humungous (is that a word?) container because my family and I take it every day internally as well.


Vitality Health Systems
Largo, Florida 33777
1-800-469-7471


Ok...this is an excerpt from from "MsM: On Our Way Back to Health With Sulfur" by Beth M. Ley.  May be able to find this little pamphlet over the net not sure - got it at my local grocery store recently.  I have TONS of material on MSM, but this book is fairly new, so I wanted to see what else was cookin' in the written department.  This is easily explained and nicely done book.

Excerpt SKIN: Sulfur is called nature's "beauty mineral" because it keeps the hair glossy and smooth, and also keeps the complexion clear and youthful. Sulfur is necessary to produce collagen and keratin, protein substances necessary for health and maintenance of the skin, nails, and hair. 

Cystine makes up about 14% of skin and hair tissues.  As a component of cystine, sulfur helps to heal and repair most tissues in the body.  This includes those at risk from damage due to free radicals, aging, physical injury to internal organs and the skin.  MSM is also important for recovery from burns and surgical incisions.   Scar tissue will result without adequate cysteine and sulfur.
     
Because of it ability to protect against the harmful effects of radiation and pollution, sulfur slows
down the aging process and extends life span.   It is found in hemoglobin and all body tissues and is utilized in the synthesis of collagen. (this point right there is why it makes the skin more youthful,
even for those who don't begin using it until they are older!)  This prevents dryness and maintains elastin in the skin.
     
Teenagers found that MSM (100 to 1,000 mg daily) experienced improvement in acne, including rosacea, in about one week of us (Herschler, US Patent #4,616,039)
      
Itching and dry, scaly skin can also be improved with MSM at an oral dosage of between 100 and 1,000 mg daily in about a week.

     
MSM may be used oral or topically to aid skin disorder. When used topically in the form of an ointment, lotion or gel, psoriasis, eczema, dermatitis, dandruff, scabies, diaper rash and certain fungal infections respond quickly.    End excerpt

This ex. is only one tiny little tidbit of information on MSM.  But its affects both internally and externally are rather wonderful - in my opinion.

One more thing - MSM is a very powerful anti-inflammatory, with the side affects of water...... :)

andrea

Hi Andrea                                                            

I agree that MSM is a wonderful product. I hurt my shoulder so badly that I couldn't even lift it without a great deal of pain. I went to a doctor, took the medication prescribed, did the exercises, went to a chiropractor for over six months, and remained in so much pain that I couldn't sleep through the night. It took a little over two weeks of taking MSM to get rid of the pain completely. It never occured to me to put it on top of the skin but what a great idea. Thanks so much for sharing that with us.        

Terry  
                                                             

Hi Andrea,

Been using your recipe for a few days now and I must say - so far so great.  My skin really seems to be smoothing out and yes it seems to be bringing dirt in the pores up to the surface. I was very skeptical but I think that if this continues I might be your biggest fan!  My MSM has Vit. C in it in the form of ascorbic acid.   My skin is very sensitive and breaks out easy and so far it is so clear.  I'll keep my fingers crossed and let you know.

Janet

1156

Re: MSM and Aloe Vera Gel Oct 19, 2000

Hello Jayne!

I hope you get this - I was off the net for a day or so and boy this board moves FAST!

Anyway, as far as what is coming off your skin when you do the rub down?  Some part of what is
coming off is dirt, the MsM pulls it up right out of the pores, some of it is residual product yes -
but mostly it is dead skin.  If you try it a few times, you will notice that the amount of slough off changes, though the amount of product on your skin is roughly the same.  That's the simple
explanation!  See lower on the board for more about MsM and a short explanation that will relate back to this topic.

I will also put where I get my MsM and a couple of other good resources for it...if I can find those bookmarks!

En-Light-in
andrea

Hi Andrea

i bought some powder that has vit. c in it also...but i don't think thats all thats in it...not sure because it doesn't say anything else on the ingredients...should i use this one?..i've been mixing it in my juice so far because i didn't think it was the 99.9% pure stuff...not sure..

jayne

1153

Last word on Retin-A   Oct 18, 2000

To those of you who accused me of plugging my products and website, sorry.  But since you are so concerned with the face and keeping it in tight, taut, healthful condition, the advocating of the use of Retin A without any of you responsibly mentioning that no product can be released by the FDA without the warning NOT to use the product without a strong sunblock, and that if you open any box of Retin A or read the small print in any ad advertising Renova or Retin A you will see the
disclaimer about staying out of the sun when using these products, just like cigarette packs warn about increasing the risks of cancer or heart disease.  Frankly, I am a 65 year old professional woman who has written and published eight books on cosmetic surgery and skin care, who has been a beauty editor for 20 years and only developed my own safe skin care products after years of research and comparison into the harsh preservatives and additives and chemicals in so many commercial products. But for those of you who have used the product for 10 years or more and still have no signs of skin cancer, good luck to you! Like those who smoke and may take 20 or 25 years to develop malignant cancer or ephasyma or other diseases, RetinA will slowly harm your skin, by thinning out the layers and exposing the new skin to the ravages of the sun, and with the Ozone layer so depleted, there will continue to be a higher incidence of skin cancer.

You cannot change closed minds.  I have read many medical journals that prove what I already know; Retin A should only be used by those with severe acne.   And if it can be used safely on
the cervix fine -- but you're not exposing your cervix to the sun, now are you? Enough said.  Let the user beware!

Judi McMahon

Hi Judi

Wrinkles look a lot better than skin cancer.

Sheri

Hi Judi

Please post your many medical journals, name, date of publications and issues. I and many others would be very happy to read them. Also according to some comments on this board, your own products may very well be cancer causing.....hmmmm... now  what do we do with that?

Jason

Ok Jason, I'll bite!  How are Judi's products 'cancer causing'?

Jean

Jean

No, I never said her products were cancer causing LOL!! I was merely responding to Judi with her own logic concerning Daphne's and Cleo's posting that sunblocks and AHA's were carcinogenic. I
was asking her how in light of their arguments, that her own products were not cancer causing since she was so strongly supporting their assertions about the dangers of exfoliation, sunblock, Retin A, etc. I think Judi was actually trying to take from the two posters what she wanted and leaving the rest. Her focus has mostly been on the evils of Retin A. However, that was NOT their only point; however, she conveniently ignored the rest of it.

Jason

1152

Re: Further sun exposure   Oct 18, 2000

Jason is spouting untruths.  First, the Ozone layer's depletion is the reason for the growing incidence of skin cancers.  It has nothing at all to do with using sun screens or sun blocks.  Also, there has been a growing use for the past 15 years of Retin A and if anything, this is the reason that there is a growing incidence of skin cancers as Retin A attracts the cancerous UVA and UVB rays of the sun to the skin, and should NOT be used by fair skinned people at all.FURTHERMORE, the glycolic acids I use are made from fruits and sugar and frankly, a woman can take a tablespoon of pure sugar, mix with some tepid water and rub onto the face and get a pleasant exfoliation without even buying any of the alpha hydroxy acid products, however, the alpha hydroxies I use are not made
from petroleum in any form.  Visit my website, RebornAngel.com to learn more!

Judi McMahon

Judi,

Just because I don't agree with you is no reason to insist that I'm lying. The research is out there and can be read by everyone. The Ozone layer depletion is just one of several theories as to why skin cancer is increasing, others include increased incidence of sunbathing, abuse of sunscreens, increased in sun exposure due to an increase in outdoor sports, etc.


However, according to Cleo's assertion, sun blocks cause cancer which your products contain. I just wanted to know how you defend your products in light of that. Additionally while you may
use "natural" products in your creams what else do they contain? Must they be refrigerated? If they are 100% natural, they would not last long without refrigeration. What inert ingredients do you use to preserve them? If you use other ingredients as preservatives then your products are NOT 100% natural then are they?


Retin A cannot "attract" UVB and UVA rays to your skin. Use of Retin A can only make you more sensitive to them. An adequate sun block can prevent that from happening.

I fear that "truth" in your sense of it is quickly becoming a casualty. You stated you had read "numerous" scientific articles of the damage Retin A causes. I merely requested that you post
them for everyone on the board to read. Instead you responded angrily. Hmmmm..... What does that say?

Jason

1151

Retin-A Ana's question   Oct 18, 2000

Dear Ana,

You mentioned irritation from using Retin A and someone (Jason? I think) said that the capillaries exposed after and/or any veins showing was not a side effect of Retin A but was just your new skin being exposed. NOT TRUE AT ALL.  I have been working with women who have used Retin A and Renova for more than ten years in my practice as a Certified Aesthetician and often see terrible capillary breakage and damage from the skin losing far too much of its protective layers to this harsh,
irritating product that makes you ultra sensitive to the sun's cancerous rays.   Switch to an alpha hydroxy acid or Vitamin C product, and consider using my REBORN Skin Renewer which is a 100% natural product that repairs damaged tissue, heals fine lines and broken capillaries and hydrates the skin. You can visit my website, RebornAngel.com to learn more.

And Jason, do you work for a pharmaceutical company and/or have a vested interest in pushing Retin A?  It is a harmful product and no one yet knows all the devastating long lasting effects of
using it.  Years ago dermatologists told acne patients to sit under sun lamps as treatments until they learned the sun lamps caused severe damage and skin cancers. Now dermatologists prescribe RetinA and Renova, because its easy to do, but terrible for the skin. Don't believe all the lies you read.  Read the fine print, please folks!

Judi McMahon

Amen, Judi.

Many people responding to these posts are not reading all the related articles, nor are they using common sense or being pragmatic.   Doctors and health care workers have always endorsed
and recommended the use of harmful products, medications and practices (sometimes, unaware at the time of the harmful effects)-sunlamps, thalidimide, margarine- the list is enormous and varied.
Some effects show up fairly quickly, some take decades. If you want to use the products, fine- but, stop insisting that because a doctor or nurse told you to use it, that it's safe. Dermatologists, doctors and the pharmaceutical companies, and cosmetic surgeons all make money off these products.  Rememberwhen doctors endorsed cigarettes on t.v.?   I do. They recommended certain brands as the ones they smoked. Great health advice- huh?

Cleo

Cleo has a good point.

Diane

Diane

Yes, Cleo has had some good points. And really, WE ALL appreciate the dialogue she has brought to the board. And I say that in all sincerity. I'm sure many people reading have gotten a clearer and
better understanding of the products they may be interested in using. And that is ALWAYS beneficial.

Jason

Judi,

According to cosmetic surgeons I have spoken with, the only means of getting rid of telangectasia or small red broken capillaries is through laser treatment. I'm sure if you have discovered products that do this it would be of great value to the medical community. I have not heard of any other cosmetic products making your claim. No I don't work for a pharmaceutical company, but you seem to have a motive for promoting your own products. I make no money from either FlexEffect or anyone for the comments I put on the board. Can you say the same?

Jason.

1150

All our recent discussions  Oct 18, 2000

Hi flexers.  I have been reading all the discussion lately...re: renova, retin a, various products.  Actually I like it!  I want to know anything and everything that anybody and everybody thinks.  There is nothing wrong with voicing opinions, beliefs.......or in endorsing a product you sincerely find
beneficial and effective...such as retin a...renova..vit e........whatever....   Why not tell about products...even if they are your own?  Everyone does it, been doing it all along.  Recommending various websites to one another, various products, asking questions and advice.  This is what it is all about. Right?   flexing..and total skin care...as you definitely would want to have one to enhance the other.    Let's keep open minds and learn about all the things...and not get in a tiff and our feathers ruffled to hear opinions by different people that are not always of the same minds.  It would be very boring if we all of us had the exact same opinions.   Back to FLEXING......I HAVE A QSTN RE; FLEXING......I am still having trouble with wink adv.....could someone (anyone) give me a clue.

Jean

Hi Jean                                                               

You're absolutely right. Discussion is great. Opinions are great. Most of us have strongly held beliefs that we would never be able to prove. Most of us are intelligent enough to sort through the differing opinions and decide for ourselves. Jason is giving us the information that he has come across through research and personal experience. He is not insisting that any of the information is indisputable. I agree with you. Let's keep an opened mind. If we want to come on the board and express our opinions lets not deny others the right to do the same. Cleo, you have some very good points but Jason was not saying that he knew for a fact that there is nothing unsafe in sunscreen. We all know that doctors, and the medical community itself, can be wrong. He was just saying that it is the best alternative that we are aware of at this point. Of course, coming out only at night and sleeping in a coffin is always an option but that could really mess up your social life. I agree totally with you Jean. Keep the opinions coming but understand that everyone will not agree with you. And aren't we happy about that.                                                   
Terry     
                                                           

1149

Andrea's recipe MSM   Oct 18, 2000

Andrea:

Would you be so kind to write your recipe out in "recipe form" for me?    (example:  1T. Aloe vera gel, etc.) 

Thanks, Loretta

Greetings Loretta,

Absolutely!

The Basic MsM/Gel recipe is as follows:

4 oz.  Aloe Vera Gel
3 - 4 tsps. MSM powder (or crystals)


That's it!  Very simple.  Let the mixture sit for a few hours if you are using the crystals to give them time to dissovle completely into the mixture.

The MSM/Gel/C recipe is as follows:

2 oz. Aloe Vera Gel
2-3 tsps. MsM powder
1 tsp. Ester C (or powdered Vit C - but Ester is superior)

Andrea

1148

An Observation    Oct 18, 2000

I've been following this board since about August, and it has been fascinating to watch the interactions evolve from basic "how do I tone this area" questions, to often spirited discussions and
differences of opinions on some challenging topics. Deb, Jason and Olympia seem to be up for the challenge and are interested, thoughtful and gracious moderators. I'm not sure if Deb thought
her message forum would ever evolve in this way, but all three trainers (at least in my mind,) seem to be open to new opinions as well as very willing to lend their experience and give advice when asked.
The discussion around retin-A reminds me a bit about the question of hormone supplementation that I introduced a while back. Unfortunately there is no right answer for all of us. These are things that are available to us, but while they may be very beneficial to some of us, for others they may be quite dangerous, or at least not giving the results we were looking for. I find nothing more frustrating than to raise the "what should I do?" question to my doctors and to have their response be "You need to
make your own decision based upon this research..." I wish someone would just tell me what will be safe and keep me healthy, youthful etc!!! But the reality is that no one can do that. It all feels very much like an art instead of a science doesn't it?So it is important that we remain open minded, that we ask lots of questions, that we listen and refrain from making judgments about others for their choices. On a personal note- I've been using retin-A at night and alpha hydroxies in morning off and on for a few years. I was looking to have a brighter, clearer complexion and they have given me that.
I try to drink a lot of water (not always too great about that) Sometimes I do feel dry and irritated and then I back off and just use tons of moisturizer. I've just started "flexing." I'm never great about consistency (tend to do it while I reading this board or taking a bath-or if I'm watching tv alone!)But I've got to admit, I like the feeling of building muscle and it just makes me feel healthier. Sorry for this
editorial

Lisa

Lisa,

Thank you so much for your comments. Yes, we (and I include myself in there as well) need to be opened minded. What works perfectly well for one person just may not work very well for another. Your allusion to skin care being almost an art is very apt. Welcome to the board; hope to hear more from you.

Thanks bunches!

Jason

Hi Lisa

1146

Retin A  Oct 18, 2000

Dear Deb and Olympia,

I started using retin-a in the beginning of September, the cream felt OK but a week ago I started feeling a burning sensation all day long I still do. My skin doesn't look irritated but I still feel that burning sensation. I am also  developing little red veins on the sides of my nose  and I am concern about retin-a increasing them. I do not know if I should stop using it or if  this burning is normal. It is kind of strange because the first weeks I didn't feel anything and 4 or 5 weeks later a started to
feel that burning sensation. I also would like to ask you how do you use the vitamin e: on top of retin-a? is that ok? is not a problem combining them, or one night retin-a and and other night vitamin e? Thank you,

Ana

Hi Ana

I personally use Retin A in a stop/start pattern. A burning sensation is a common side effect that will stop after use is interrupted.

Telangiectasia (little red veins) is not a known or listed side effect of Retin A. This actually may appear as the skin exfoliates because it was present to begin with. When dead layers of skin are removed, they may become noticeable. When I started using Retin A, I already had telangiectasia around my nares. When I asked my doctor about them he stated they might become more noticeable with Retin A or any exfoliant.

According to a recent article that one of our respondents graciously posted for us, nothing should be applied over the Retin A for at least one hour after application. Deb, I know, uses Vitamin E over her Retin A every other night. Apparently, this has worked for her (and may reduce side effects as well).

Hope I've helped to answer your questions.  Thanks.

Jason

Ana

I use Retin A, and for the first few months I had peeling, irritated skin. Then I started using P-&-R (Protect and Restore) alternate nights and WHALA! No more irritation AT ALL!

Sadie

1142

Jumping into the Retin-A discussion Oct 17, 2000

For purely cosmetic reasons, I used an intensive skin regime called Obaji which included Retin-A. The treatment lasted for 3 months and my doctor recommended the treatment should not continue for more than 3 months. He suggested I could continue to use Retin-A once a week if I wanted but he did not recommend continued daily treatments. Anyway, I decided not to continue with Retin-A in any manner after the 3 months since I pretty much received the results I wanted (getting rid of sun damage -brown spots on my cheeks and around my eyes).

Certainly I am not as knowledgeable as many in this forum about skin care but as it appears people are looking for studies, research, etc., a very, very *reliable* source for current “mainstream” medical information is http://www.webmd.com/

The drug profile for Retin A can be found at: http://my.webmd.com/content/asset/uspdi.202574

A comprehensive article about aging and skin care can be found at:

http://my.webmd.com/content/dmk/dmk_article_5461720


For lots more articles and information, do a search on “Retin A”. The most negative thing I found regarding Retin A in WebMD was that “one study found that long-time use of tretinoin damages Langerhans' cells, special immune cells that help prevent skin cancers.” There was no mention about it thinning or thickening the skin. In any event, if people do want to try Retin A, it may be wise to err on the side of caution and use Retin A only on a short term basis and then switch to a less intensive maintenance program.

Hope this helps,
Robbie

Hi Robbie - thanks for the websites, every bit of info helps!

All my best,
Olympia

THANK YOU Robbie,

I will review these articles. Good going! We need people to dig up as much stuff as possible without making blanket unsubstantiated statements.

Jason

Robbie,

That article was one of the most ringing endorsements to wearing sunblocks that I have read in some time. If you were worried about whether to wear or not to wear sunblock, after reading that article, who would doubt that sunblock is one of the most beneficial products to protect yourself from photo aging and cancer???

One very important point that the article stated was that most research on sunscreens was done years ago before the higher and more potent blocks were developed. Again.....use sunblocks that
have zinc oxide or titanium dioxide in them.

It still seems as if the jury is out on the long-term dangers of Retin A and it's cause of cancer. The description indicates that "In some animal studies, tretinoin has shown to cause skin tumors to develop faster when the treated area is exposed to ultraviolet light. . . . Other studies have not shown the same result and more studies need to be done."  The study you mention in your post must be the "some animal studies" referred to in the drug description although this is be no means clear.

Thanks for posting those sites. Very informative and interesting.

Jason

1140

Further research   Oct 17, 2000

Please note that the following are from other sources.  I've been doing some research.

ALPHA HYDROXY ACIDS  (AHAs)

Why do you think AHAs not so good?  Aren't they from fruit? Most AHA's (or even Beta Hydroxy Acids), such as glycolic acid are synthesized from petroleum and are no longer available from sugar cane.  If a fruit acid is used, it must be at a lower pH (an acid) in order to function like an AHA.  This lowers the pH of the skin, stressing the skin and lowering the immune resistance. Fruit
acids are indeed botanical, and MAY temporarily improve the immediate appearance of the skin; but again, they do it by dropping the natural pH of the skin and burn off the outer dry, damaged layers of the skin.  The outer layers are what protects the inner layers of your skin from harm; infection, sunburn, etc.  Instead of burning off the top layers of skin, it is better to let the damaged, dry, skin be exfoliated naturally within one to two cycles (24-48 days), if the synthetic ingredients that caused the skin's condition are discontinued.


What about sunscreen and cosmetics with sunscreen in them?

The more sunscreens are used, the more there is a direct increasein skin cancers from sun exposure.  [ABC News Report]  Also, ABC News Health -&- Living on the internet reported that during the period from 1991 to 1997, melanoma rates almost doubled, while at the same time sunscreen sales also almost doubled. We don't know what this means, because we have not yet studied the problem. But it certainly looks like we ought to have it in our to research file.


SPF means Sunburn Protection Factor.  Sunscreens block mostly UVA rays which are responsible for sunburn.  Yet, sunscreens do not give people carte blanche to stay out in the sun any longer than they normally would without getting a sunburn; the more sunscreen that is used, the more the natural response of the skin is ignored!  Sunburn is Nature's warning that you've had too much sun!  Preventing sunburn by using a sun block only prevents the symptom; you've still had too much
sun!


Everyone needs a certain amount of sun regularly, in order for our skin to manufacture Vitamin D3, the hormonal precursor responsible for keeping calcium in our muscles and bones.  Vitamin D3 is NOT available in milk or any other food; it can only be produced by the beneficial rays of the sun.  Petroleum ingredients interfere with this process and sunscreens block it completely.


Rather than cover our skin with sunblock or sunscreen, we limit our exposure to a healthy, reasonable amount in order to gain the most benefit from sunshine.   Any amount of sunburn is not reasonable. If we must be exposed to the sun for longer periods, we wear hats, protective clothing, etc.

Cleo

Hi Cleo - thanks, we'll check it out!

All my best,
Olympia

Hi Cleo

Again, according to this post, we are dealing with circumstantial evidence NOT research. Sunblock sales increased. Skin cancer rates increased. How do we know what the correlation is? We do
know that sun bathing and tanning booth use has accelerated. Could there be a polarization between those who use sunblocks and those who don't?  Are people who are using sunblocks using them
incorrectly? That is, abusing them by using an spf 15 then staying out in the sun for longer hours than the sunblock can handle? There are FAR TOO MANY variables here. What is the average SPF that has been bought with what kind of ingredients?


Has exfoliation actually lowered the immune response. What blood work was conducted to show decrease in white blood cells or immune cells? How much exfoliation is too much. What statistics
are present showing rates of skin infections due to use of over the counter glycolic acid products? Physician sold products?


As we age we are more susceptible to many of Nature's conditions. Should we therefore not take Aspirin for anti-coagulation purposes to prevent heart attacks or strokes? Or medicine to reduce high blood pressure? Let things go through their "normal" cycle? I don't know. With these kinds of arguments, why are we Flexing again?????   Just a question,

Jason

PS if you still think you need vitamin D through sun exposure, nothing says that you can't wear sunblock on your face and let the rest go au naturale.

Hi Cleo                                                           

I agree with Jason, that there are too many variables to know for certain what is going on but I also agree with you. Sunscreens and sunblocks may only cover up the symptoms and we sometimes undergo unpleasant conditions to warn us of things that we would otherwise be unaware of. It's like always using pain killers rather than finding out the reason for the pain. I also believe that many
people think that if they use a sunblock they can stay out in the sun indefinately. Unfortunately, it will probably be a long time before we have the answers we're looking for. I feel that any information is good information. Thanks for adding your knowledge. It makes me think.                                               
Terry     
  

Hi Cleo,

Remember that anyone can write anything and post it on the web. Just because it's on the net doesn't mean it's true. Just because it's in a book or periodical doesn't mean it's true. Just because it's on TV doesn't mean it's true! What was the URL of the info you pasted here? What medical research info was cited?

Sadie

1139

Rosacea  Oct 17, 2000

I have noticed several posts regarding rosacea.  I too had rosacea. After being treated unsuccessfully and unsatisfactorily by 4 different dermatologists, each one using a different cream
or pill, I search the web and found the SHER SYSTEM at www.sher.co.uk/. Helen Sher and her products did for me what no dermatologist could do. My condition has cleared completely and
I have not had a flare up in 3 years. I would definately recommend these products to anyone with acne and/or rosacea. Check out the website for yourself!
Susan     

1138

Sunblock and other cosmeceuticals   Oct 17, 2000

Please go to the following websites and read a couple of articles about the possible negative effects of some sunblocks and AHAs. I believe that this is what Daphne was talking about.

http://www.ngnews.com/news/2000/10/10052000/sunscreen_3113.asp

http://www.lindachae.com/alpha_hydroxy_acids.htm

Cleo

1136

To Andrea 99%? MSM  Oct 16, 2000

Andrea...where to you get your MSM?...i looked on web and there are 5000 some sites!!!...i bought some at health food store only to get home and notice it didn't say it was 99.99 pure and it
had vitamin C in it..then at bottom in fine print it said all the stuff about containing no yeast ..blah blah..then it said each serving had less than 5 mg of sodium!..no..i don't want to put salt on my face...so i guess its not the right MSM powder....could you email me or post where you get yours?..i
don't want 8 lbs of it..do they sell smaller quantities?..or do you know of somewhere i can get the pure MSM?...thanks so much...

jayne

Jayne

Vitamin Shoppe- in person or online

Diane

Hi Andrea:

Thanks for the recipe using MSM and aloe vera gel.  I went out and got MSM (it has some Silia, Magnesium Stearate, and Gelatin) but I tried it with 99% aloe vera.  I thought I wouldn't get
anything off my face but sure enough there was dead skin waiting to come off.  I did it a second time and again there was dead skin rolling off.  The second and third night I tried it there was no dead skin.  So I'll give it a rest.  I gave it to my 23 year old and sure enough she was rolling off the dead skin.  She was surprised.  

So, Andrea, thanks for passing on this to us.  Sure appreciate it. Does this take the place of the alpha hydroxy acids Thanks

Hello Flexers:

Can anyone out there recommend something for thinning hair (postmenopausal) that they have used and find effective?  There are several things out there that are supposed to be effective against blocking DHT (dihydrotestosterone) and they are all so expensive.  Anyone has tried anything?  Help. Please.     There are several on the market that claim to inhibit dht (ki

Imani's mom

Imani's mom

so you don't think what's rolling off your skin is the gel?...sometimes when i put a cream on my face.....and it doesn't soak in...i can rub my face and get crumbs of product......makes me wonder if whats coming off isn't the gel....not dead skin...........cause once the gel dries somewhat it would crumble off.........right?...

Jayne

1135

Bravo Daphney for speaking the truth     Oct 16, 2000

I just read the beware message about Retin A posted by Daphney who states she is an M.D. Congratulations on being truthful, as too many doctors like to write prescriptions for Retin A for
Renova and for antibiotics, even though the side effects on all of these pharmaceuticals are dangerous.  Retin A will make your skin like parchment paper in a few years, showing the veins and
broken capillaries beneath, that is if you don't get skin cancer first by using it or Renova. Believe me, I'm an expert who has written eight books, who is now 65 years of age and has excellent elasticity and skin texture because I practice what I preach: I use alpha hydroxies, Vitamin C products, and my very own revolutionary REBORN Skin Renewer, which is 100% organic essential oils.  Visit my website RebornAngel.com and learn more about this.  I'm offering an end-of year special right now so Flex people can take advantage. By the way, you'll see photos of me and other women and men
who happily use Reborn holistic products.

Judi McMahon
RebornAngel.com

Deb, Judi

Well, Deb, you've used Retin A for many years. What's your take on this? I've seen no research that backs up what Judi or Daphne claim. There are people who do have side effects and cannot use
Retin A, but from what I've read of long term use of Retin A for those who can use it, research does NOT support their opinion. Judi, as an expert, I would assume that you have some data on this since you feel so strongly about the negative effects of Retin A. I've used this product very successfully for over a year now (I also have acne which it has been beautifully controlled for the first time in my life). Research that I've read over the last year and more does not support your assertions whatsoever
that Retin A causes the kinds of side effects you say. I know you have great faith in your created products but do I wonder about your objectivity. Most books I've read on skin care and cosmetic
surgery including Alan Gaynor's book "Everything you Ever wanted to Know About Cosmetic Surgery" advocates Retin A use IN PRINT. A local Dermatologist and two cosmetic surgeons that I have personally talked to about Retin A prescribe and have asserted Retin A's ability to lessen fine lines, smooth out complexions and thicken the dermis as well as control acne.
Research.....Research....Research....

Jason

Hi Jason

I've used Retin-A for 13 years as of next month and have absolutely no intention of stopping now.  THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ONE SINGLE REPORT OF CANCER CAUSED BY RETIN-A . In fact, quite the opposite (prevents many facial cancers).

In response to Judi:

Just how far could I have gone in this business if my skin looked like parchment paper and was covered with broken capillaries?   I agree, it's not for everyone (takes time for the skin to adjust) but for those of us who didn't consider it that big of a problem and didn't give up (at least 6 months use)...   it's been nothing but benefits.

BTW, they are now considering the use of Retin-A for the prevention of cervical cancer... I guess  applied topically to the cervix.  Does the same thing for the cervix as the face... out with the old, in with the new!  (makes perfectly good sense to me)

_________________________

Med. Report

Retin-A (Retinoic Acid) is often used to improve the appearance and texture of the skin. It produces a mild, superficial peel of the epidermis. Retin-A has effects on the both the superficial (epidermis) and the deep(dermis) parts of the skin. The major benefit is to decrease the effects of sunlight caused aging by increasing the speed with which the surface cells are replaced.

In the epidermis it thins the outer later, or stratum corneum, which makes the skin more permeable. However the overall thickness of the epidermis is increased. The epidermal cells are also more active. The production of collagen in the dermis is increased.

The most common problems are redness and sensitivity to the sun but serious complications are rare. If Retin-A is used repeatedly there is a risk of loss of pigment or lightning of the skin. Some patients say that the irritation is painful but scarring does not occur.

Some patients find that Renova which is Retin-A mixed with an emollient cream is less irritating.

Many surgeons like to use Retin-A to prepare the skin before skin resurfacing with peels and lasers.

Some doctors feel that bleaching agents are more effective in the treatment of chloasma (pigment change during pregnancy) when combined with retinoic acid.

______________________

Dr. Samuel Stegman , Associate Professor of Dermatology and Dermatologic Surgery at the University of California - San Francisco notes that we all smile and express ourselves at all ages of life, but it's not until the tissues themselves are assulted by external factors like sundamage that these creases begin to become permanent.

Isn't that a great arugment for facialbuilding!  Not to mention, a very good reason for Retin-A

Albert Kligman, M.D., Ph.D.  Now Professor Emeritus of Dermatology. Chief Researcher and Developer of Retin-A.  At age 79, he is a world-renowned expert on the aging of the skin.

Deb

Hi Judi:

I agree with Jason. I have used Retin-A for 10 years and have never had a problem.  It has helped my breakouts as well as thickened my skin.  The combination of Retin-A and Flexeffect have been beneficial to my skin.  My dermatologist told me it was the best creme on the market for wrinkles.  I agree that not everyone can use Retin-A, but for those of us who can, it has been a God-send.

Becky

Hey Judi:

How many times are you going to advertise your site and products on this Board anyway?  Maybe you got some good products, who knows.  But don't you think you're taking advantage of Deb's good nature and hospitality by going a bit OVER BOARD HERE!!!!  I find it pretty rude. We know where your site is by now, you've posted I don't know how many times already. 

Jenna

Jenna

As much as I agree with all the postings of Daphne et al, and with the dangers of cosmeceuticals, I wholeheartedly agree with you about using the FlexEffects Board as an advertisement about one's
own products! C'mon, Judi. Use your own time and money to get your own board to do your advertising!  This one is about open discussions, not free ad space.

Diane

1130

Simone Re: Retin-A   Oct 16, 2000

I'm an M.D.. I was simply warning people about the dangers of Retin A.  Use it at your own risk, enjoy - hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.  I hope in twenty years time, all is well. I'm signing off of this board.  I would, however, like to express my admiration for Deb, for posting all opinions- pro and con.

Daphney

Hi Daphney

Thank you for the compliment.   Please stay with us! Without controversy this board would be dead in the water.   Besides, if someone doesn't ask why....? how would I ever get the chance to say why not...?

Deb:0)

Hi Daphney

I understand that you're a doctor, but surely as a person well versed in science, you understand that research means a good deal more than a simple unsubstantiated warning. If you have come across research that leads you to this conclusion that Retin A is universally harmful, please, I and many others who read this board, encourage you with all sincerity to post articles. As a registered nurse, I'm very open to considering scientific articles pro or con concerning the use of any product, especially one that I use. Therefore, rather than signing off the board because you may feel your opinions were not well received, be a part of community interested in skin/health related issues where what you say CAN be beneficial to many people even for those who don't necessarily endorse your opinions.

Jason

Hi Daphne:

I agree with both Deb and Jason, they've basically articulated my thoughts as well.

I too would welcome any new medical information, studies,etc. that you as a Doctor/scientist are privy to, and that you would hopefully share with us on this Board.   It's so important that we go fourth in this life armed with accurate true sound information/findings, from reliable sources, so that we can indeed make educated, rather than ignorant decisions, especially when in regards to our health.  We all need that and seek that. 

Don't you think that we should embrace differences of opinion and constructive argument, even if they do or don't ultimately lead to a viable conclusion?  This Board, a microcosm of this world,
thrives on those very differences - which are key and vital to it's very existence, survival and growth. Okay, a little deep perhaps, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to get at here.  Deb and Jason said it much more succinctly than I have, but I assure you, we're all coming from a good place.  
Anyway, bottom line, hope your still out there, and ready to join us again and share the wealth of knowledge you have acquired as a physician.  If you decide not too, I thank you for joining us for
a brief time.

All my best,
Olympia

1123

Retin-A Rosacea Oct 15, 20000

To date there is no known factor that causes rosacea. It largely appears to be genetic since it has been seen to travel in families. There has been NO contributing correlation found between exfoliants and Retin A, and rosacea. If there were, we would be seeing darker skinned people with this disease as much as fair skinned people. Once rosacea develops, however, your skin may be much more sensitive to these products and use of them may exacerbate the condition. Alcohol and sunlight, however, seem to aggravate this condition the most. Recent studies indicate that sunlight increases vascular endothelial growth factor in victims of rosacea causing increased redness and telangiectasia. If you have used exfoliating products without proper sunblocks or avoidance, the rosacea could be greatly exacerbated.

Additionally, many people have this condition for years before it is diagnosed. Not realizing that they have rosacea, many victims use products that may increase their exposure to sunlight thus
precipitating its continued development.

Jason

1122

Radical Rejuvenation  Oct 15, 2000

Has anyone read Roxy Dillon's 'Radical Rejuvenation' book. I've studied it from page to page...it's like my Bible! She gives loads of advice on how to look younger by using herbs, vitamins etc. and most of all by eating a raw food diet. I tried it for some months and it does have a very beneficial effect, but unfortunately had to give it up when I became pregnant. I intend to resume when I've finished breast feeding, as I really think there's something in it. Just wondered if anyone might be
interested.

kate

Hi Kate                                                           

I haven't read that book but I used to to eat a mainly raw food diet and for some reason gradually got out of it. I would like to get back into it. Did you get that book at a regular book store? I would like to read it. How complicated is all the herb and vitamin stuff?

Terry H     

Hi Terry
I got the book in a local book shop in England. It's a paperback and should be easy to obtain. It's not complicated, although it's crammed full of information. The author tells you all you need to know and where to get the herbs etc from. It's quite an impressive read. Hope this helps.

Kate

Hi Kate
I haven't read the book though it sounds very good.  I started eating a well-balanced diet (lots of grains, dark greens for salads and veggies, fruit, and a soy protein powder).  I also started exercising daily with weights/aerobics, flexeffect, and started taking vitamins all faithfully.  Physically and mentally, I can feel better and look better.  Spiritually speaking, I feel more clean and pure.    

Thanks for sharing your interest.
Nancy

1114

Large Pores  Oct 14, 2000

Hello Flexors!

How does one go about closing large pores (left from acne)?  I'd like for my face to look smoother.  
Thanks,

Chris

Hi Chris...

I, too have large pores.  I used Renova for over a year and this helped tremendously; however several mos ago I started using the Reborn products (as I mentioned in earlier post)...she has a glycol cream that is very beneficial for this problem..or I have found it so. I have also used MD Forte in the past...glycolic acid is very effective on this particular problem.  A glycol peel is also result-giving.  Glycol is the only thing I ever found that does help this problem.  Hope this helps since I can attest to its effectiveness personally.

Jean

Hi Jean

Thanks so much for your response.  I'll try some glycol. You said the same thing as Olympia so that means you all know the product well. 

Chris

Hi Chris:

Pore size is largely due to genetics.  You can't ever truly close pores.  In addition, if the follicle wall is impacted with debris, they will look larger.  What you can use to do deep pore follicular cleanse is a glycolic based cleanser such as MD Forte (can by at www.dermadoctor.com) or Serious Skin Care's Glycolic Cleanser sold at www.hsn.com.   I've used both and both are quite good, MD Forte is a bit more expensive.  In addition, use of such products as Retin A or again a glycolic acid lotion will assist in not only topical exfoliation, but also travel deep into the follicle wall to loosen impacted debris.  This will give the illusion that your pores have shrunk. I too have large pores due to my genetic makeup, and my pores appear to be much smaller due to my use of Retin A.  Talk to your dermatologist about it and learn the in's and out's of using it should you decide that's the way to go.

Best of luck,
Olympia

1112

Retin-A / Rosacea Oct 14, 2000

i used retin a for many years for antiaging. i now have rosacea. i am a member of a large rosacea board and based on my experience and many others we believe our rosacea is a direct result from retin a / glycolic facials, ect. i am currently using nvperricone products (he wrote the wrinkle cure) with good results but the products are quite costly. i did not have luck with reborn products. can't wait to try andrea s recipe!!!!! as far as the permanent redness problem of rosacea i now have 5
photofacial treatments to look forward to for 3000.00

Darleen

Hi Darleen:

How many years did you use the Retin A for - just curious?   Regarding Rosacea: have you tried any of the Vitamin K products out there?  www.dermadoctor.com has one call K-Gel.    My dad has
rosacea, and rather than using the T-Gel (prescribed for rocacea but is really a anti-parasitic gel treatment and from reading FDA notes - long term may be highly toxic and carcinogenic) has used K-Gel and Dermal K with much success. Vitamin K creams are usually prescribed by surgeons for those post op patients to control bruising, but they've found it's a non-toxic way of controlling
rocasea.  I don't know the severity of your case, but  you might want to speak to your dermatologist about the possibility of trying out a topical vitamin K cream. I'm so sorry to hear about
your situation. 

Also, if you don't mind me asking, are you a very fair skinned person?  Does this condition run in your family? I'm assuming this was diagnosed by a dermatologist as rocasea.  Did your dermatologist state that this was indeed a possible result of using Retin A?  Do you have any other health problems (Lupus) that could have contributed?  You don't have to answer any of these questions, I'm just a "fact finder" type person, but I appreciate your taking the time to give us a glimpse into what could be a negative outcome of using topical exfoliates.


I've also just recently read, I believe it was in one of  my medical newsletters (I can't remember if it was John's Hopkins or Harvard Med.....) anyway, that findings are showing that there is clearly evidence that this condition is parasitic in nature.  How the parasite is acquired, they're still trying to determine.   Genetics also play a key roll in this as well.

Again, thank you for you input, it's not an outcome I ever considered as a possible result of using exfoliates, but it makes one think.....keep the info coming.  Where is this Board you're part of anyway...I'm interested in viewing it.

All my best to you,
Olympia

Hi Olympia

i started retin a for antiaging when it first came out (in my 20 s) i am now 48. the rosacea was not gradual / it was like overnite. yes i am fair skinned and live in south florida so im sure that did not help. i do not have lupus, ect. the vit. k products have not helped. right now based on alot of research the only result producing treatment is photofacial/photoderm (dr. bitter method). egroups has a great rosacea board. something to keep in mind for those of you contemplating retin a/strong glycolic facials / ect. p.s. i was not a sun worshiper. i have always been the first one on the bandwagon for the latest antiaging products. yes i do look younger than my age but it is not worth the broken capillaries/PERMANENT redness/large pores.

Darleen

Hi Darleen

Thank you Darleen for answering my questions - I appreciate it!

All the best
Olympia

Hi Darleen,

The onset for rosacea occurs generally between the ages of 30-50 years of age about the time that people begin using Retin A for anti-aging purposes. Therefore, it is possible that the Retin A
had very little to do with the condition. It occurs three times more often in women than men. Just a thought.

Jason


Hi Darleen. 

I, too, have rosacea..and used Renova for over a year.  I am not trying to blast Retin A nor Renova...should be individual decision....but it did worsen or stimulated my rosacea.  So is not for everyone...so pls do your homework if you have this type skin prob.  When I went to 1st visit
w/dermatologist yr ago...she said "have you ever been diagnosed with rosacea; I believe you have rosacea"...knowing what I have gleaned since that time, I cannot help wondering why she prescribed Retin product????  Renova or Retin A is powerful stuff....and it can be highly effective for certain problems but as Jason or someone   stated, it is not for everyone. I do, however, use a glycol cream...and a mild glycol gel peel...I have had no problems whatsoever going this route..that has
greatly enhanced things in my personal case.

Jean

1111

Skin Care Recipe & Instructions   Oct 14, 2000

Have to tell you that I'm surprised - delightfully - but surprised and happy to leave this recipe here for you along with a few notes about the active ingredient.

Recipe first:
I make this recipe in a 4 oz. container, so that is what I'll go off of here.  I find that 4 0z. lasts me about a month or so.

1 - Aloe Vera Gel (this carrier is good for all skin types, though dry skinned people will find a bit of Vitamin E cream or oil under eyes and on lips is a good after-touch)  I use an Aloe Gel made by a company called "Naturade", the particular product is called Aloe Vera 80.  The reason I use
this one is because of how it is made. There are many Aloe Vera Gels on the market but they use preservatives that are known to be irritants to the skin - while this one does not.  - 4 0z.

2 - ACTIVE INGREDIENT is MSM or methyl sulfonyl methane.  You can do a search on any search-engine for MSM and get thousands of pages of research data, companies that carry it etc., etc.  I purchase from a company in Florida in bulk, so get it wholesale.  The main thing is to get 99.99% pure MSM in powder or crystalline form.   - 3-4 teaspoons.

Stir this up, wait a few hours for the MSM to fully dissolve and voila its done.
 

ANOTHER VARIATION for free-radical pursuit - add 1-2 teaspoons of powder form Vitamin C [Ester C is the best if you have it] to the above recipe. 

NOTE: When you add Vit C to the above recipe it will turn to a very watery consistency immediately.  It can then be put in a sprayer or dropper bottle.  It makes A LOT so you can even cut the above recipe in half, keeping the Vit C at 1 teaspoon and have enough to last a whole month.

Now for a bit of info on MSM - the rest I'll leave up to you and your own research, but here's a few points about why this recipe is so powerful.

First of all MSM is a substance that has been around for a very long time.  It has been used for many years by Veterinarians because nutritional medicine is far cheaper than pharmaceutical
medicine, and is extremely effective.


MSM is "in every single cell of your body".  Part [and this is a BIG part] of why skin ages is because the amounts of MSM we get in our food these days, and actually since at least the 1930's is so low, that the body hoards it for top priority usage and other areas go without - like the skin, eyes, nasal passages, lungs etc., etc.  MSM is the substance within your body that keep the membranes that are supposed to be permeable - permeable.  Take the eyes for instance, they are covered with a layer or membrane that allows liquid to pass in and out of it thus keeping the eyes clear of debris, clean and healthy...however! When there is not enough MSM present in the body for these tasks, the membrane starts to get leathery and doesn't allow passage of fluids hence junk gets stuck - this is
one reason for glaucoma.  I have actually seen glaucoma cleared up by putting drops of MSM mixed in purified water right into the eyes - and this was accomplished within 3 months in the case
I personally witnessed.  There are many membranes in the body that are meant to be permeable like the nasal passages, the lungs, the eyes, various other organs deeper in the body...all requiring MSM to keep them that way.  This is one reason I also take MSM internally, as it speeds up the external results as well.


Now briefly - why it works so well on the skin!?  MSM is natural sulphur - the same stuff that is in every cell of your body - not the other sulfurs or sulphurs you have heard of which are derived from chemical processes or mineral based etc., so don't get these confused!  When you introduce MSM to the skin, the cells will allow this to pass deeply into the furthest most layers of the skin EVEN into the muscles beneath the skin!  This is not so with any other cream, emollient, serum etc., etc. that I have been aware of thus far - if you know of one that will claim that, let me know!

I could go on for days about what MSM does, but you can get that information over the net with a tiny bit of digging.  I hope this helps some....

Final note: I purchased the FlexEffect last night - am looking forward to getting it!

OH!! one more thing I almost forgot to post here.  When you start using the MSM Gel recipe, you may notice that when it has all soaked in and dried, that your skin feels a little 'tight'.  If you are up for it, you can begin to rub warm, dry fingers over your facial skin - upon apply this bit of friction you will begin to notice balls of skin rolling up under your fingers.  Continue rubbing the entire face until all of this skin has sloughed off.  This is actually dead skin coming off under your fingertips.  There will be a pretty good inflush of blood and your skin may feel warm [mine does].  Re-apply the gel.  You may find at the beginning that you continue to get dead skin off after 2 or even three applications in the same sitting - that means lots of dead stuff was waiting to come off.  When its all
done, your skin will feel like a babies behind!


I do this at night generally and in the morning my skin is simply beautiful.  Cells are always dying and being made so this process will continue as long as you use the recipe above, but will be far less after a short time.  I don't get as much dead skin now as I did when I first started.  The first time I ever used this I thought "is this ever going to stop rolling off my face?"  But when it was done, I have to tell you there was immediate gratification as the skin that came up from underneath was rosy and soooooooooooo soft.

I didn't have anyone to guide me when I started doing this on my own.  I had no idea if pulling on my skin was a good thing, but I did it anyway because it not only felt good, but it looked good.  But the results are proof positive after 4 years of doing it, that it works.

Ok...done!

Andrea

Hey Andrea - love it - thanks for taking the time to share this with everyone, can't wait to try it!

All my best,
Olympia

My pleasure Olympia - truly.

Boy I'm long winded sometimes LOL.....

Andrea.

Hey Andrea - talking about long winded...have you ever seen my posts?....good gosh I could give an aspirin a headache...Keep 'em coming girl....long winded and all informative....:-)

My best,
Olympia

andrea,

if you decide not to do the skin rub every night do you just leave on the skin overnite. do you apply also for daytime? are you using any special cleanser/toner/moisturizer in addition to recipe????  concerned with rubbing and broken capillaries.  thanks. what are your thoughts of adding alpha lipoic to this recipe??????

darleen

Greetings Darlene,

One does not have to do the rub - only if you choose to, the application can of course stay on over night undisturbed then rinsed and re-applied in the morning if you choose.   As for me, I use it morning and night - I actually rarely wear makeup and when I do its just a touch of under-eye concealer and eye colors etc, so my skin is always wearing MSM gel - everyday.

Adding alpha lipoic is a very interesting suggestion and something I have never tried.  Something to note about MSM is that it operates as an enhancer to absolutely anything you might use internally speaking.  One example is as follows: lets say a person is a diabetic and they take insulin.  By adding MSM to the daily diet [i.e. taking it internally] the body begins to re-address the issues of insulin usage and the insulin needed [via needles] can be reduced [ in fact being sure to keep a close eye
on it is valuable - because less is needed].  MsM assists the body to become so much more efficient that less of the drug [in the case of prescripts] is needed to produce the same results.  The only drug I am aware of that the opposite affect is the case is alcohol, it generally takes more alcohol for a person to get drunk who is taking MSM - sometimes not getting drunk at all!  It also helps with hangovers as a side note :)

However, back to the lipoic acid question....let's try it! Why not?? I'm up for it.  Lipoic Acid works very well with Vit E and Vit C - Vit C is a catalyst for the MSM and the MSM will make all of the above more affective....so I say its worth a try!  Thanks Darlene!

One last note to you:

I will take a look to see if there is anything specific on rosacea as relates to MSM and send it along to you...or please let me know if you find something specific.  I have several books written by very knowledgeable people with regards to MSM sometimes hard to find on the net.

Will keep your condition in mind when I'm doing any mental/spiritual work on helping to heal the planet and those upon it...

Andrea

Hello Andrea

Your recipe sounds like something I'd like to try.  And, where would I find Ester C and MSM to purchase?   thanks for sharing
Lou

Greetings Lou,

Where are you Lou?  Depending on where you are in the country has a lot to do with it.  In most major areas like where I live [which is Portland] they are easily gotten in the local grocery store.  Fred Meyers in this case carries both crytsal/powder MSM and Ester C.   Most health food stores.  If neither of these are available to you there are many online stores that carry these items and can be ordered easily enough.

Since my husband and I both take MsM and our dog btw!! LOL  Plus I use it to make my face/gels and such we buy it in bulk....which lasts us about a year or so.  I get 8 lbs people! LOL [btw
LOL=Laugh out loud, in case you were unsure]  I use it, so its worth it.  But for the amount you would need to get started, most Health Food Stores or local grocers.

Let me know Lou...if I can help you find it I will be happy to.

Andrea

Hi Andrea,

Thanks for the recipe, does it need to be refrigerated??

Jae

Hi Jae

No refrigeration is necessary....but capped is necessary or it
will get cakey......

Andrea:

Thanks so much for sharing.  I can't wait to try it.

Becky

1105

Re: Post# 1085 Retin-A etc.    Oct 13, 2000

Hi Daphne:

You said you are a medical correspondant for ABC. Do you have a medical degree/background?  If so, what specifically is it?  Or are you a journalist, a "layman", who gathers medical facts and reports on them.  Not quite unlike what is discussed on this Board.  I'm just interested in your area of expertise.

Actually from my personal research, Dr. Kligman, the innovator of Retin A, came up with it over 25 plus years ago. It has been in use for acnaic conditions for over 20 or so years, and according to studies (of which I can not site at the moment - perhaps you're aware of them), has shown no evidence to potentiate carcinigens in the skin. 

In fact, these studies have show that Retin A obliterates these AK's (pre-cancerous leisions) with regular use.  In terms of the stratum corneum or dead layer of skin cells of the epidermis being there as a protective layer and not to be toyed with, you've got a valid arguement there but it's not one that is new: how much exfoliation is too much exfoliation?  It's there for a reason?  That remains to be seen and in this case is clearly an individual's choice. You may opt for steering clear of exfoliants
and that's your choice based on your research.  Retin A also has the tendency to build the dermis in terms of thickness and collagen synthesis, which tends to thin out, slow down and breakdown as we age.  In no way, and I have to agree with Jason here, are you less prone to melanoma or solar irradiation because of the build up of the stratum corneum as you age. It's calle solar irradiation because of the very depth these rays travel.  And yes, physical sunblocks of titanium dioxide and zinc oxide do stave off the harmful rays of the sun.  This doesn't give one a license to abuse themselves to long hours of exposure. 

From what I can see, I've been a silent oberver for awhile and I'm fairly new to this Board, this is a forum for discussion of the FlexEffect Program for the most part, of which Deborah and her crew seem to know exactly what they're talking about.  Indeed, they all seem to be an extremely intelligent, well read group who don't appear to be ill advising anyone with inquiries in regards to the FlexEffect Program or skincare. 

I don't believe anyone here is making any sort of false or ignorant medical claims that Retin A or the like must and should be used in order to achieve desired results.   They're simply stating their opinions about this product and others, how these products have worked for them personally and putting it out there for anyone who may be considering Retin A or physical sublocks or whatever the questions at hand, as an option for their consideration for their personal skin rejuvination program. I
think what this Board provides is reasonable from a lay perspective - some good sound advice you can take it or leave it.

Thank you for the opportunity to state my opinions. 

Simone

Hi Simone

And thank you for stating them!  

I have Dr. Joseph Bark / Dr. Kligman's book Retin-A And Other Youth Miracles ...it's excellent.  Anyone attempting to use Retin-A for the first time, please, this book is an absolute must. 

Deb

who was that masked man?  LOL

1094

Retin-A  Oct 13, 2000

I've heard much talk on this board about Retin A. How do I go about getting hold of some. I've looked it up on the net, but can't find any access to it.Thanks

Janet

Janet,

You have to have a prescription for Retin A from a doctor. It IS a very difficult product to use. There is a lot of information out there on how to use it, and really, you'll need to go through it
before you start. Kinerase is a product comparable to Retin A and in clinical trials appears to have all the benefits of Retin A without the side effects; HOWEVER, if you think Retin A is expensive, Kinerase is even more so. You do NOT need a prescription for Kinerase. You can buy it at the pharmacy. They generally will have to order if for you.

Thanks


Jason

1091

Thank you for your reply   Oct 13, 2000

Thank you for the reply to "The Quandary" my last and first posting on this message board - it helped to clear up at least the issue of lag between sending my first email and how it happened that there was no reply.

To Jason -&- Olympia I didn't see any email addresses for either of you on the site - for some reason it didn't stand out to me in the design of the webpage, I will look again, but have yet to find an email address for either of you.

I wanted to just put a couple of comments within this post about other postings on this page as of this day 12:53 am (PST) Friday, September 13, 2000.

I have been using Facercise, because I found the book at a local bookshop here used.   I have been doing this for about 8 days now and the improvements I have experienced are quantum.  People are
actually stopping me in every place I do business and saying how rested I look, or asking what I've done with my hair, or some comment about wearing more makeup and looking really good -
something - it has been most interesting and encouraging.  I had no idea the whole concept of muscle stimulation in the face could be so immediate - as well as other benefits to what I do professionally (which is sing - increased muscle control has made quite a difference) The facercise program is mostly isometric I believe it would be called (?) with some resistance involved however the exercises don't seem to me to cover all of the areas I would really like to work on and getting more information on how to work certain muscles is nearly non-existent in terms of "free" information on the web - I have looked hard - spent a few hours each day over the course of a week or so hitting the search engines to find out if there is more direct information not packaged up in a "course" or
a "video" etc., etc., and its just hard to find!  That is why I thought the FlexEffect would be a good program it appears to be more intensive and covers more areas in more depth - at least that is what I gather from the explanation of it - though the proof of that is not terribly abundant.

I have to agree with one of the postings on this page that one before and after image is meager to say the least, especially when this site is one of the more professional and elegant sites relating to this kind of product I really did expect a long file of images to explore.  I'm not sure if everyone understands that each and every person is unique, with different problems, different life-styles and so on, and of course results are going to vary - but to get to see many varied displays of results with
this program, especially since it has been around for a while is a positive and encouraging thing.

One more note, relating to another post concerning Retin A and Deb's mention of using it.  I have also used Retin A in the past.  Ultimately I found its advantages didn't outweigh its problems.  Touchy, sensitive skin was not my idea of a skin system.  There were times when the strength had been prescribed too high which made applying makeup painful - no fun.

When it comes to prescriptions or pharmaceuticals of any kind there is always the question of their being half-equations.  What I mean by that is this; take valium for instance - it is derived from Valerian Root, a naturally occurring plant that when taken internally sooths the nervous system and aids in relaxation - it is whole - it works very well because it is part of a balanced system.  Valium on the other hand is only a small very potent part of valerian root without the balancing factors built into the plant to begin with - parts extracted through chemical means - half equation.

Am not saying that science hasn't done some good and wonderful things -

I have found something that works wonders for my skin, have been using it now for about 4 years - it is whole, it isn't fancy and in fact I make it myself - so anyone can.  It exfoliates, tightens the skin when externally applied, even heals wounds and makes acne [if one suffers from this] a thing of the past; it also heals pockmarks from previous acne scars or scars of any kind [I have shared this with other people over the years and seen these results myself], it also helps grow new skin on burn
victims returning their skin to near perfection [have seen this personally].  It is in fact the only thing I have ever seen evidence - conclusively - that actually penetrates the skin layers deep enough to feed far beneath the surface of the skin - everything else, including all those expensive serums and creams
sit on top penetrating little more than a few layers.

If there are any interested in knowing more about this, post here and I'll put it up - this is already a small book!!  I don't sell it, in fact you'd have to do the research yourself to find it and then make the recipe for yourself - but am willing to share the info if anyone is interested - won't bore you now with the details, unless there's interest.  Have found most people like the "ready-made" stuff and aren't willing to do the work of making it and using it...so.

Last but not least - and this I wanted to close this writing with- thank you Deb for your email.  I was glad to receive it. 

Au Revoir
Andrea

Hi Andrea

Your very welcome! I'm sure I speak for everyone here..."WHAT'S THE NAME OF THAT STUFF?"  Dynamite post...see you back here again ;-)

Deb

Andrea:

I would be interested in knowing about this formula that you are speaking about that helps acne.  I use Retin-A but am willing to try anything new.   I have sebaceuous hyperplasia (enlarged oil glands) and am open to anything that would help this condition.

You can get access to Olympia's (and Jason's) e-mail address if you click on "Class and Show Locations" and click on Olympia's (or Jason's) name below their picture, then scroll to the BOTTOM of their personal page and click on the mailbox.

I've been using Deb's program for 8 months and it's the best there is.  I didn't take pictures but wished I did for my own benefit so I could compare myself to what I looked like 8 months ago.  Applying resistance to the facial muscles is the only way you're going to get results you want.  I found the more resistance I apply the better my skin responds.  I feel anything outside of applying great resistance to these muscles won't be effective.

Becky

Hi Becky

Thanks for the directions on the email addresses Becky!  Found them.  I too had a problem with enlarged oil glands, though not severe - the recipe I have now posted on this board has changed
that completely.  It took a while, but I was patient and that patience has paid off in spades.

Give this a try and I would strongly suggest, if you are comfortable with what you discover upon researching MSM, that you take it internally to assist your oil glands with doing their job!

Andrea

Hi Andrea,

I for one would love to get the information on the ingredients in your home made skin care.  I am a big believer that whole, real ingredients are the way to go.  I will definitely try your recipe, so please post it.   Thanks!  

Jae

Andrea

Absolutely! Please post or email me the recipe.  The closer to nature, the better when it comes to cosmeceuticals!

Diane

Hi Andrea,

Yes I would be interested in your natural home made product. My email is included here for you to send it. Would love to try it.
Thanks

Jason

1085

Deb Oct 12, 2000

I have a question for Deb. I'd like to know if you do all 40 exercises every day still, or do you do a maintenance program now that you've achieved your firm face? Also do you hope to maintain your youthful face however old you get, or will sagging eventually hit home? I was rather disappointed to read on your board that you consider Retin A to be equal to facial building in order to achieve desired results. That doesn't exactly give hope to all those who either don't want to use Retin A, or who cannot obtain it, or who cannot afford it. I'd appreciate your comments.

Jane

Hi Jane

I do more of a maintenance when not teaching.   Yes, I try to train everyday.  Yes, I hope to maintain a youthful face as I get older but just how long everything will last remains to be seen! But as I said in so many words in the previous post...  I will continue to age from head to toe, but I guarentee you, I'll  look a hell of a lot better than the average bear my age...and for now.... THAT'S AS GOOD AS IT GETS ;-)

I think you may have misunderstood my take on Retin-A.  I consider Retin-A and facialbuilding an unbeatable combination. when you are dealing with both sun damage and sag.   How does someone not being able to use it, or choosing not to use it, have any bearing on the fact that using both (for some)  will be the only way to achieve their desired results?

Deb

Hi Jane

I didn't catch that.  I'm with you.  I don't want to use Retin A,AHAs or Glycolic Acids either.  There is no evidence that they don't cause further damage, or cancer, somewhere down the line.  I have to believe that rapid cell turnover is, ultimately, dangerous.  Why is it that sun damage acquired in our early years turns into skin cancer in our later years?  The sun is less likely to affect us to a greater degree as we age.  Cell turnover is faster when we're younger and our skin is much more defenseless to the ravages of the sun and the environment due to this fact.  Our skin toughens as we age, cell turnover slows, and the dead cells actually provide protection against the environment.  As much as I applaud the use of sunblock, and use it myself in the summer, again, we have no evidence of the safety of sunblock in the longrun.  It takes research decades to determine safety of products.  Just because the FDA approves something, it doesn't mean it's safe. I'd like to know that the facial exercises alone will have a positive effect on my face.

Daphne

Hello Daphne

Facialbuilding alone will absolutely have a positive effect on your face with or without Retin-A.

Deb

Daphne,

I have to disagree with you somewhat. All the research, and there is a lot out there on the net, indicate that sunblock is the BEST preventative against sun induced melanomas. To date, there has
been no indications that prolonged use of sun blocks cause cancer. However, since we DO know that sun exposure DOES and its incidence is rising rapidly, it makes more sense to use something
like sunblocks that prevent this.

Also, your skin is just as vulnerable to the sun at 40 as it was at twenty. Age plays very little difference to sun induced skin damage. The only difference may be that as a younger person you
incurred more damage due to the amount of time spent outdoors.

Also AHAs, Retin A affect the epidermis, which is the outermost layer of skin, which is already dead. These products when used correctly are safe and effective.

Older people, after a life time of sun exposure, can suddenly develop skin cancer due to the fact that as we age our immune systems are less capable of suppressing and recognizing mutated cells. Throughout our lives it is possible that most of us have cancer cells that occur within our bodies, but our young, healthy immune systems are able to recognize them and eliminate them. As we get older this is no longer the case.


Also Retin A can be used in combination with facial exercises as can a whole host of other products that promote exfoliation and stimulate collagen. Deb has never promoted Retin A to be equal to facial exercise, just an unbeatable combination.....in HER opinion. Hope that helps to clarify some things.

Just a clarification. Retin A does effect the dermis of the skin as well. I had included it with AHA's as effecting only the epidermis. The benefits include reduction of precancerous cells of the dermis, thickening the dermis, increased collagen production as well as reduction in fine lines and wrinkles.

Thanks
Jason

Hi Jason

Sorry. But that's not true.  Not enough time has passed todetermine the  safety of any of the products- including sunblock. And the dead outer layer is natural protection.  Much more
sun-damage occurs with rapid cell turnover.

Hi Daphne

I won't argue with you since there is much research out there that lends credence to what I've said. Any time you use products that exfoliate you become more sensitive to sun exposure. I don't believe this was the point I was making rather that sun damage is no respecter of age and can occur at any time during your life. I have not read ANY research that indicates sun blocks should NOT be used. If you know of any, I would be interested in reading them.

Thanks

Jason

Jason

Not to belabor the point, but, the latest research is that sunblock has NOT decreased the number of cases of skin cancer. The researchers believe the reason to be twofold.  People are more cavalier about going out in the sun when they have sunblock on, and, therefore, stay out longer.  Sunblock does not prevent burning or prevent the harmful rays from penetrating the skin.  It just prolongs the time a person can be out in the sun before a burn occurs.  The sun-sensitivity from products such as Retin A, etc. also contribute.  It wasn't until recently that a consensus was reached that physical sunblock (such as titanium dioxide) is far more effective than chemical sunblock.  It also took quite
awhile for the medical and scientific communities to realize that UVB and UVA rays had different effects.  I'm also saying that no-one knows, yet, the ultimate effects (cancer or otherwise) that
prolonged use of any of these products have on a person.  There is nothing new about facts and research coming out decades later about the adverse effects of products, medications, etc. that were
once thought to be harmless or even beneficial.  I am not questioning the safety of FlexEffect, just chemicals.  I work in the news department at ABC. We are the medical correspondents.  I hate to hear reckless claims being made by laymen.  And, I don't mean you, Jason.  As I stated before, I hadn't read the particular posting that recommended Retin A, I was merely responding to the
posting that referred to it.  I also agree with the statement about our immune systems possibly being able to fight off acontinual onslaught of mutations or viruses.   But, if that's the case, as we age and our systems possibly break down, why feed the fire with less defenses, that is, more sensitive skin.
Thank you for your time.

Daphne

Daphne:

You have a good point and if you read the board in its entirety, you would see that I have strongly advocated using either zinc oxide or titanium dioxide with an spf of 30 or greater. I use Skinceutical's Ultimate UV Defense. Great stuff.

However, we can get as radical with the issue of chemicals as one could want. After all, there is very little research out there that does NOT prove that the soaps and detergents we use or come into contact with every day cause cancer. I am not advocating that we wear sun block then spend hours in the sun. A sunblock can only provide so much protection, thus the spf rating. But by wearing sunblock AND avoiding the sun, we can drastically reduce sun damage and it's later consequences of photo-aging and melanomas.

It is an establish fact in the medical community among cosmetic surgeons and dermatologists that NINETY PERCENT of the damage to the skin that these Dr.s seek to correct is from sun damage. In Dr. Alan Gaynor's book "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Cosmetic Surgery" he states, "People spend billions of dollars a year on cosmetic surgery and creams to reverse wrinkles and liver spots, much of which would be unnecessary if they'd protected themselves from the sun earlier in life."

I don't mean to belabor this point; however, I think it is vital that people are not misled until research proves that sunblocks are in anyway harmful. To date, this has not happened and sunblocks with sun avoidance remains our BEST means of preventing photo-aging and skin cancer.

Thanks

Jason


Hi Daphne                                                         

I think your original concern was whether or not you would benefit from flex effect even if you choose not to use retin-a and some of the other products talked about on this board. Yes you will;
depending, of course, on the condition of your skin and your dedication to the program. I personally use only natural plant based products because I have issues with animal experimentation and ingredients. My skin was in pretty good condition to begin with so my results have been less dramatic than some but muscle is muscle and working it will always be beneficial to you. All the
best to you in coming to your decision.
                            
Terry H.

Hi Jason                                                               

I'm discussing the effects of Retin A and other products that accelerate cell turnover, and, you're discussing sunblock.  I think you're missing my point.  Anyway, I do appreciate the responses from you and Terry H.
Thanks again.

Daphne

957

Re: Soy in pill form Post# 955   Sep 10, 2000

Hi Lisa.

I think you're right to be concerned about taking premarin. After all, since it comes from the urine of pregnant mares, it's only a natural product if your diet consists mainly of hay. Not to mention the horrible life these horses are forced to live in order for their urine to be collected. I'll spare you the
gruesome details. If you really hate the idea of eating soy products on a continuous basis you might want to use a soy protein powder. Some of them taste quite good. You can get them flavored or
unflavored. I use "Soy One" although there are a lot of them on the market. But make sure it's Non-Gmo (Non-Genetically Modified). You can either add it to soy milk or regular milk if you prefer and make a milk shake out of it, or mix it with other foods. You can add it to sauces or if you bake you can put it in with breads, cakes, cookies or whatever. In some cases "silken tofu" can be used as a replacement for eggs. One thing about soy is that it doesn't really have any flavor of it's own, so it takes on the flavor of whatever you mix it with."Silken tofu" has a creamy texture and can be used to make puddings and cheesecakes, and stuff like that. If you do that, it has to be "silken tofu". You can find it in most grocery stores. I made a chocolate cheesecake out of it. Of course it wasn't a cheesecake at all but no one knew that until I told them afterwards. Everyone loved it and they were all meat eaters. Anyway, sorry for taking up so much space. I just want you to know that even if you hate the idea of tofu and other soy products, there are a lot of ways you can add it in without changing your diet. I hope this helps in some way.   

Terry                        

955

Soy in pill form   Sep 10, 2000

Since we have been discussing all of these hormone questions there have been recent reports saying that soy is not as beneficial as we have been told. As my mom developed breast cancer post menopause after taking estrogen and I just had one of those scares that sometimes happens when a mammogram is being done ( "We need to take another picture to rule out...") I have decided to slowly take myself off of premarin as it just seems like it is too risky IN MY PARTICULAR CASE. However I worry about my skin for one thing. I will continue trying to get this flexing to be more routine as I think it does make sense. However, it disturbs me that I can't take soy in a pill form and reap the benefits. I'm just not good at ingesting all that soy, and it seems more difficult to keep track of the amount taken in. Can anyone help?

Lisa

Hi Lisa

Click on the address below taken from ...Soy and Human Health ... lots of good information! http://web.aces.uiuc.edu/faq/faq.pdl?project_id=5&faq_id=565

Deb

944

Soy estrogen and skin   Sep 3, 2000

Thanks everyone - Jean, Ursula and of course, Deb, Jason and everyone else who has knowledge about the link between soy isoflavones and skin.

I am already aware about the link between soy and preventing breast cancer and that soy may have some of the attributes of estrogen for the heart and bones. My big question is:

Can soy isoflavones benefit skin in the same or similar manner to estrogen? If so, it would be a great boon to everyone. If anyone knows of research in this area, please let us all know.

As most of us are aware, when women lose estrogen during menopause or a hysterectomy, they often age rapidly - especially the skin. So this is an important area for all of us flexers.

And again, the soy in pills is not the safest or most effective way to reap the benefits of soy. When it comes to soy creams, I'm not aware of studies in that area.

Thanks,
Carol

942

Re: Soy Post #940... Dr Mirkin's web site   Sep 3, 2000

I went to Dr Mirkin's web site....they responded back that they sell no products....when I asked about Dr Mirkin's Modified Formula, as mentioned in one of the posts, they did not know what I was talking about and referred me to an estrogen report on estrogen cream Rep 6929.  That is all the info I got from that site.  Go to the net, put in Dr. Gabe Mirkin and hit search and you will find maybe you will have better luck.  I was also inquiring about soy, as I, too, am interested.

Jean

Hi Jean

I called it modified formula, because I modified it myself, after reading many reports on weak estrogens (like soy), in books and on web. I like outdoor sports that is why I don't use Retin-A.
I use sunscreen for UVA/B. Sorry for not being more clear.Please check book 'The breast cancer prevention diet' by Bob Arnot

Ursula

Thank you UrsulaWill do.  Appreciate.

Jean

940

Isoflavones for the skin    Sep 3, 2000

Regarding HRT and soy isoflavones:

Is anyone aware of any study that measures soy isoflavone's benefit for skin elasticity and wrinkle prevention? I would like to see if soy mimics the benefits of estrogen for those unable to tolerate estrogen.


I have been unable to find Dr. Mirkin's website.

One more thing regarding the consumption of soy isoflavones: I've read that it is much better to eat soy than take it in pill form. Isoflavones in capsule form have no effect at best and can be dangerous at worst.

Thanks,
Carol

Carol

If you decide to eat or drink soy products be sure to use products that are NON-GMO Certified. The genetically modified products have a far lower level of isoflavones. I doubt that taking it in pill
form would be dangerous but eating or drinking whole foods is always better. When anything is put into pill form they can only isolate the ingredients they know of and there's still a lot that they don't know. Good luck.
                                   
Terry                                                       

935

The effects of Hormone Therphy on Skin      Sep 1, 2000

Hi Everybody,

Those interested in HRT regarding skin, click on the website address below...'Medscape'
http://pharmacotherapy.medscape.com/PMSI/EMJ/1996/v03.n01/em3106.vanleusden/em3106.vanleusden.html

Deb ;-)

932

Feels Good  Sep 1, 2000

I do these exercises right before bed. Now, I don't know whether it is coincidental or not, but I think I'm sleeping better.  They relax me!  Nice fringe benefit!

Question, can you recommend a good sunscreen for the face? I heard that only sunscreen with Parsol 1789 is the one to get. 

Jason, I just read your reply to Jayne regarding the forehead exercise, as well as the suggested exercise that she do without her hands, just contracting her scalp,,,,,

I've been doing that exercise for the past 30 years, just because it feels good and releases tension in my forehead area.  The benefit I've received from it, unbeknownst to me until now, is that I don't have any lines on my forehead, and I'm almost 46 years old.  Hmmmm, this stuff must really work!

Renee

Renee,

Actually you can use about three different kinds of sunblock that are exceptionally good. Parsol 1789 is a good ingredient; however, titanium dioxide and zinc oxide are considered better.

I alternate between two different kinds at the moment. I use Skinceutical's Ultimate UV defense with an SPF of 30. It has 7% zinc oxide and 7.5% Octyl Methoxycinnamate.
Because of the zinc oxide, it provides 100% UVB AND UVA protection. I consider it the best. It is, however, a physical block, not a chemical one. It is OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive, $34 for a 90 oz tube!!

The other one I use is a super el-cheapo block from Wal-Mart. It's called NO-AD Babies Maximum Sunblock with an SPF 45. It's a good product because it has quite a number of chemical blocks, PLUS it has zinc oxide in it. So again, you are getting the whole UVB and UVA spectrum covered. It costs about $8 for a 16 oz bottle.


I also use from time to time Neutrogena's Sensitive Skin, which uses a 9.1% titanium dioxide. However, it's not nearly as nice as Skinceuticals Ultimate. Neutrogena's goes on easily enough at
first but then gets globby and remains visible on the skin. Plus if you sweat ANY at all, it runs or becomes embarrassingly obvious.

Just make sure that whatever sunblock you use, it has an SPF of at least 30, k?

Jason

929

Back to that Hormone question     Aug 31, 2000

Hi Lisa:

How long has it been since you had your surgery? I, too had a hysterectomy 5 years ago and at my request my gynecologist left both ovaries.  I was 41 when I had mine and I'm now 46.  The doctor said that with just one ovary it should produce the right amount of estrogen that the body needs and should last another 10+ years.  So far I haven't noticed any changes in my skin as far as getting oiler or getting drier, but I can say that with the combination of Retin-A and flexing my skin is in better shape as far as elasticity and thickness is concerned than before I had the hysterectomy. Next week will be the
beginning of my 7th month in flexing.

I'm not taking any HRT's, but I know I will be faced with it some time down the road.   When this happens, I will have to go the natural way.  I can't take the synthetic kind as it gives me migraines.  Anyway, my sister (who is 53) uses the progest creme.  She rubs it on her arm.  It absorbs through the skin.  She says it has helped her.  You can get it at the health food store.  I also found it on the web.
http://www.thewisewoman.com/products.htm Hoped this gives you a little encouragement.

Becky

925

Back to that hormone question   Aug 31, 2000

Thanks for the feedback from so many. Don't want to stray off the subject of flexing with my questions, but I think the hormone factor is relevant in terms of what we are working with and
trying to understand, so I hope this has been OK (?) Currently thinking of stopping HRT and just going with soy. Am curious if this will be as helpful to my skin appearance and elasticity.Also Deb, thanks for the info on the weight training- that will help keep me motivated.

Lisa (LH)

Hi Lisa

You are absolutely right... the hormone factor is extremely relevant.  I welcome any and all information on the subject ( I wanna know too!).  

Deb

923

Re: Hormonally Challenged #918   Aug 30,2000

Is that what the capsules are called at Walmart?..soy estrogen capsules...?

Jayne

922

Re: Hormonally Challenged # 918 Aug 30, 2000

Is it safe to apply estrogen to the face when you are in premenopause?  I use progesterone cream and drops to up my progesterone levels, so I know that if you apply estrogen to your skin, it goes into your blood stream. I checked out his website and could not find much info on it.

Jae

Jae

SEARCH FOR "ESTROGEN CREAM" REPORT # 6929

URSULA

921

Re: Hormonally Challenged Post # 918   Aug 30, 2000

Ursula and Jason-thanks for the ideas. I shall try that.

Ursula, have you had good results w/this

Lisa

HI LISA

YES, I AM USING DR. MIRKIN'S MODIFIED FORMULA FOR ABOUT 2 YEARS.MY SKIN IS SMOOTH, NO WRINKLES AROUND EYES, CHEEKS OR NECK.BUT FOR THE DROOPINESS OF THE MUSCLES YOU NEEEEEEEEEEEED QUEEN DEB'S EXERCISES.

YOU KNOW WHAT OLD PEOPLE SAY "WITH AGE AND GRAVITY THINGS ARE GOING SOUTH". WELL, I AM FLEXING SINCE MID JANUARY AND THINGS ARE GOING SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOWLY NORTH. (LOST 10LB AND NO EXTRA DROOP). YOU SHOULD SEE RESULTS SOONER SINCE YOU ARE YOUNGER.

URSULA

918

HORMONALLY CHALLENGED   Aug 29, 2000

HI LISA

JUST LIKE DEB IS USING FACIAL VITAMINS, USE SOY ESTROGEN CAPSULES. (FROM WALL-MART) BLEND ONE DAY DOSE WITH 1 TSP (15 ML) OF YOUR FACIAL CREAM AND USE SOME OF IT DAILY, FOR 2 MONTHS AND THAN EVERY SECOND DAY. PLEASE CHECK DR. GABE MIRKIN'S SITE FOR MORE MEDICAL INFORMATION BEFORE YOU DECIDE.

URSULA

Ursula,

Great suggestion!!

Jason

913

Effect of hormonal changes    Aug 28, 2000

Dear Deb- I've just started your program. So far have some sore neck muscles, so I guess that I am inspired! However a few new questions- What is your experience with the dwindling estrogen levels of a 40-50 year old and the effects on skin elasticity? I've had a hysterectomy and now have just one ovary and am exploring hormone replacement. Drs. say that the skin is definitely effected by estrogen loss. Curious about others experiences w/your program who might be going through similar
physical changes. Also- I do try to do weight bearing exercises and am curious about your what exercises you would recommend in particular to supplement this program. I am 43. Thanks for your suggestions.

LH
IP: 205.188.195.26

Hi LH

If you are also doing resistance training for the rest of your body... training, shoulders, Pecs, Traps, will do much for the neck and jawline.

No getting around it, estrogen does play a big roll and not just in the condition of skin. But you used the right word (explore) when considering hormone replacement.  There is much out there (oral, topical...natural, synthetic) I wouldn't dare attempt to advise which way to go.  Everyone of us will respond differently to each method of HRT.  So, I would say read everything you can get your hands on (the internet would be a good place to start... most up-to-date findings.)   Let us know what you come up with.

Deb

Hey Everybody.... What information do you have and what is your take on HRT.

Come-on Jason... as an RN... you can find out what's the latest!

908

Retin-A Micro    Aug 26, 2000

Deb:

My daughter got a prescription for Retin-A Micro.  I tried some of it and I really like it.  It's less irritating and doesn't peel like the regular Retin-A. It comes in the 0.1%.  So, for those who are leery about Retin-A and didn't like the side effects, you might want to try Retin-A Micro.  It's gentler.  I
pulled some info from the web so you can read and compare Retin-
A to Retin-A Micro. http://www.pimpleportal.com/frame_facts.html

Becky

Hi Becky,

I'm currently using Retin A Micro .1% right now myself. I've used it in the past but it was too harsh. With Deb's advice I went to a .025% cream and have slowly worked my way back up to .1%, using the Retin A micro I had bought before. I've been using it for about three weeks now and have had much better success with it, better in fact than the .05% cream I had been using. The other
thing that's nice about Retin A micro is that you don't have to wait 15-20 minutes after washing your face to apply it. The NOT so good thing is that it is VERY expensive!

Jason

Hi Becky

Where have I been?  I didn't even know it existed... I'll check it out! Thanks.

Deb

877

Re: Renova vs. Retin-A Post# 866     Aug 14, 2000

Jean:

I failed to mention that several years ago my dermatologist (who has a large practice) told me that Retin-A was the best thing out on the market for lines and wrinkles (outside of surgery) and with continued use it would prevent premature wrinkles and continue to improve the skin. He never one time mentioned it was bad for the skin, only the opposite.

Becky

874

Re: Renova /Retin-A Post# 866   Aug 13, 2000

Becky - thx so much for your input on my question.  I appreciate it a lot.  I liked the results and effects of Renova; I have stopped using it for awhile now..and actually still in the debating stage of whether to go back using it again.  I get so many conflicting information...is hard to sort it all out.

Jean

Hi Jean

I too use Retin-A (12 yr.'s now)  0.1 cream (highest dose) I've yet to find anything that compares. At any rate, between Becky and myself, we know we can use it for at least 10 yr.'s without a problem LOL ;-)

Deb

Hi Deb. 

THANKS for comments on Renova/Retin A!  Yes...in 10 yrs I will be dead or in the nursing home, so I guess I can use it safely for 10 more yrs too, since I have only used it one!  LOL.

Jean

828

Spider Veins   Aug 1, 2000

I have tried the Vitamin K cream and it did not seem to work on my spider veins.   Does anyone have any other ideas on how to get rid of them?  I just bought a cream from an infomercial called
"Venice".  It is pretty expensive.  It has a 30 day money back guarantee and you are supposed to see results in two weeks.  We'll see!  If there are any other products it would be great to hear
about them!

Jade

Hi Jade:

What kind of K cream did you use - specific name brand? Was it pharmaceutical grade?   How long did you use it?  Curious.  

Just sent you an E-mail on Sclerotherapy for spider veins.  Been used by plastic surgeons and dermatologists for years with a very good rate of success.  There was just way to much info to post
so here's the next best thing: 

For anyone interested in more info on it - you can go to http://patient-info.com/sclero.htm   There you can find all the details about it.

Good-luck.
Olympia

823

couperose skin/exercises/products Aug 1, 2000

i have a lot of broken blood vessels/redness on my face. concerned about the exercises and this. will more break, or will it improve?? i have not had luck with skin products so far. maybe i have to get the laser for this. advise pls.

darleen

Hi Darlene:

Re:  broken blood vessels:  For broken blood vessels, rosacea, spider veins, ruddy complexion, bruising...BEFORE YOU DO COSTLY LASER TREATMENTS - I strongly recommend you try using a prescription strength Vitamin K cream or gel.  You can purchase K-Gel or K-Cream through www.dermadoctor.com.  

If you apply this as directed - it really does help in diminishing the look of these broken capillaries - anywhere on the body.  I have very thin pale skin and my dad has rosacea. The gel they usually prescribe for rosacea is one the FDA has proven carcinogenic if used over a long period of time and is primarily used for parasitic conditions and is extremely expensive to boot.  I read about the alternative uses of vitamin K creams and then started him on the K cream.  It works and it's not toxic to the system.   It keeps the rosacea from flaring up and actually diminishes it's appearance.  

I use it on spider veins on the backs of my legs and thighs. 

You'll see a difference in about 4-8 weeks, depending on the severity of the problem.   You can use it on the face.  First apply hot compresses to the area (don't need to do this when you just step out of the shower in the AM) to open the pores then apply as directed.

I would strongly suggest you discuss this first with your dermatologist - perhaps they can prescribe a stronger K gel or cream for you.  If not, you can always try the K Gel through Dermadoctor.  I would also suggest a strong topical (antioxidant) vitamin C serum or cream like Cellex-C or Skinceuticals as well to strengthen and feed the skin from the outside in. 

Will the FlexEffect Program help to improve this condition?  I've not seen any exacerbation of broken blood vessels on my face from my training.  I'm genetically prone to them as well.  I believe
the training has helped to thicken the dermis and epidermal layers of the skin - which is what we want.  It has increased circulation to the skin which is yet another huge plus. 

I would like to hear from our Queen.  Deb - what do you think?

Best of luck! 

Olympia :-)

Hi Darleen

I too have the same skin condition and have been dealing with it since my teens. Facialbuilding has not caused a problem what so ever. I have a spider vein zapped every now and then (electric needle) but have found  I am having to do it less and less.  This tells me facialbuilding is very beneficial sense this type of skin condition is generally progressive.

Deb

795

Update at 5 months    Jul 25, 2000

Deb:

I'm the one that wrote Post 781 asking about the book.  You asked about my training and an update. Well, I flex everyday sometimes doubling up on the undereye exercises and the neck
exercises which seems to give me the most problem.  I usually do 50 head lifts a day and 10 to the count of 8 of the exercise where you put both hands under the neck and make a sad face. I've noticed a big difference, however, I notice if I "pig out" too often and not maintain my usual diet, I tend to have a sag-ier neck.  I think this is also genetic as it runs in my family.  But nevertheless let me stress that doing this many neck lifts and the other exercise has firmed my neck area and if
I don't get off the band wagon with my diet, the sagging neck is NEARLY gone! 

As for my undereye areas, I don't have any lines, but when I smile they're there.   Also, like some flexers, I have to lay off the cheek exercises for a while and I do notice a difference.  Right now, I'm only doing the upper cheek exercises (The exercise where you hold the lower lids down and smile) four times a week so they won't overbuild too fast and make the undereye lines look worse.

I've had my days of where I hardly saw any undereye lines and my days of doubt when they were there again the next day, but I know it's going to get better because it already has from the
day I started FlexEffect.  All in all, I wouldn't trade this exercise program for anything.  I've noticed that my overall appearance is different in that I'm beginning to see lift and my skin isn't thin and gaunt like it was. My skin even glows more than it used too.  My only regret is not taking pictures in the
beginning. 

Let me add too that I've used Retin-A for years and Retin-A alone without Flexeffect just don't cut it.  I still had a saggy and gaunt look.  Retin-A with Flexeffect goes hand in hand as one compliments the other.

I just can't wait to see the results in February, 2001.

Becky

Hi Becky

Thanks for a terrific update!  It's still not too late for pictures. Take a target picture (an area you are really going after). 

Deb ;-)

759

CP Serum Jul 10, 2000

Hi Everyone:


I've been doing some research on this copper peptide phenomena sweeping the cosmeceuticals world and the results are pretty impressive.  Dr. Pickart, who is the "guru" of copper peptides www.skinbio.com - and who has developed such lines a Neova (www.dermadoctor.com) has now developed CP Serum (Item 130) for those of us with oily skin or who prefer serums to creams. Dr.
Audrey Kunin, on-line doc at dermadoctor - personally uses the Neova eye gel in conjunction with the Cellex-C Advanced eye serum. 


I will tell you why this impressed me:  Dr. Kunin, is a highly respected dermatologist, who has her choice of any cutting edge product available to her on the market (both pharmaceutical grade and OTC's). Moreover, Dr. Kunin, as a scientist, bases her personal skin regime on only the most technology advanced   products with scientifically proven results (based on studies most of us aren't privy too unfortunately). The fact that she chooses to combine these two products made me wonder if I'm not
missing out on something here.   Hey if it's good enough for the doctor, then.....it's good enough for me!


So, I'm going to be testing out the CP Serum and the Neova eye gel (skinbio does not have an eye gel as yet) on yours truly and we'll see what the results will be.....if any.  If I see improvement in my skin - you guys will know about pronto! Keep ya posted!

Always in a quest for the best..........

Olympia :-)

 

757

Thanks for you response 'Ester C cream Post# 756   Jul 8,2000 

Thanks for your response!  Clears it up.  I had been using Vit C cream by M.D. Forte (thru my dermatologist)...then discovered the Ester C cream and the info was impressive, so I have tried
that too...(not long enough to tell if any substantial benefits). So,,too late, I already spent money on Ester C!!  LOL...oh well, live and learn.  Won't pitch in trash; will still use and alternate!  I had been feeling so good about my results thus far from flexing and today, while parked at gas station, I had an eyelash in my eye, got out my trusty mirror and LOOKED DOWN IN IT....a definite self-destructive act!!!!  I thought
some of you may improve your jowls, if you have any...but it will take an act of congress to 'improve' mine...but I am undeterred...will probably now 'double up' on those exercises targeting the jowl zone.  Is it possibly, however, that this cannot be corrected or uplifted considering age and the length of time it has been slack?  (I like slack better than 'sagging hopelessly'..."sagging" sounds so final!  Has anyone else had any success with alleviating jowls?  Thx for response!

Jean

Hi Jean:

You're welcome.  If you're going to do anything with the jaw exercises for jowls, specifically Reverse Chew and Protruding Jaw - I would only do those once a day.  The reason being that both exercises involve using the temporal mandibular joint TMJ)- major joint of the face. Any exercise where joints are concerned you don't want to overwork or over tax them and aggravate the area, especially if you currently do not have a problem with your jaw joint. Twice a day would create stress on the joint - and you don't want to do that.

With the FlexEffect exercises done every day as recommended, you should have no problem creating lift in the jaw and temporal area no matter what your age.  The muscles will always respond and build when challenged. 

If one has significant skin drape in that area, it may take the skin time to catch up to the muscle.  In addition, if the skin is an acute state of drape, then one may need surgery to correct the problem and then once healed, kick right in with the   FlexEffect program "so it won't happen again!"

Best of luck!

Olympia :-)

    

756

Ester C Creams    Jul 7, 2000

A quick question for the skin experts.  Is Vit C ester cream less effective than L ascorbic acid and what is the difference?  thx a lot!


Jean

Hi Jean:

Yes  - Vitamin C Ester Cream is different from L-ascorbic acid serums or creams.  In short, any other form of vitamin C for topical application to the skin (other than L-ascorbic acid) must be converted into L-Ascorbic acid by the body in order to be utilized by the body.  L-ascorbic acid is the only form of vitamin C that can be utilized by the body.  This means that applying L-ascorbic acid, which they've now been able to stabilize (it's a highly unstable molecule) can be absorbed and utilized by the skin to catalyze collagen production. 

If you apply other forms of C via serums or creams, they will be
transported into the skin, however, once there, they have to be converted into L-ascorbic acid.   So, the effects on the skin, more specifically collagen production, don't ever take place. 

If you want to read up on this more, go to www.skinceuticals.com and read all the science and f.a.q's info.

In a nutshell, if you're going for C products and spending your hard earned cash - go for those products that have been scientifically proven to perform.  I'm partial to SkinCeuticals Products, but Cellex-C is good stuff - both are backed by science, both are L-ascorbic acid products, patented etc. 

Hope this info helped!

My best,
Olympia :-) 

749

Web-site skin care products Jul 5, 2000

I have found some wonderful skin care products.  Would be interested in your input on this.  www.nvpericonemd.com  Offers much info on various ingredients,credentials...etc. etc.  So far, I have written about weekly here on the message board...but things have happened on a weekly basis
that amaze me.  I have not been doing this so very long now (into 4th wk is all) and I am noticing MANY changes, some subtle; some not so subtle.  My neck!  Good Lord, I thought there was never any hope for my neck.  It certainly is not where I want it to be...but.....it is responding.   You can actually SEE these benefits unfolding bit by little bit.  When it was suggested I take pictures of front and side of my face...I thought, then, why in God's green earth would I WANT TO DO THAT????  Looking in a mirror is depressing enough sometimes.  Well...now I see why...and have done so...because otherwise, it is not to be seriously believed.  Pictures don't lie.  (neither do friends..well, sometimes) but acquaintances don't.  I was asked "have you gained weight?".   Now normally, this would send me into the doldrums; however since I know what they were referring to..I was ecstatic.  "You gain weight in your face first, don't you?" was the question.  I nearly got down and kissed their feet!  LOL.   I told some close co-workers about flexeffect.  I think the consensus is they are going to wait and see "if Jean's face falls off" before they try it for themselves!  I am having the best time with this!!!  I cannot wait to see what 2 mos will bring.  I am not even thinking ahead a year...the 'finished product' is a great incentive, but the little triumphs are just great.  Like tromping off into the unknown.  I love it!  Thx again!!!! (O:

Jean

Hey Jean
- I'm smiling over here reading your testimonial....I'm so happy for you but not at all surprised!  My dear lady, it's just going to keep getting better......

My best,
Olympia

744

Check out Web Site  Jul 4, 2000

Here's an interesting Web Site:   http://users.erols.com/gtodorov/skincare/index.htm

Laura

740

Actinic Keratosis  Jul 3, 2000

I was reading thru the 'previous' posts; found letter from Kim, age 40 inquiring if 'too late' to start.  Not.  I am 57 and going for it.  Age is not a deterrent, it is an incentive.  Also Ginger's post mentioned tanning beds....do not even go there.  I did.  For years....then yrs in sun...I mean YEARS.  A year ago I got myself to a dermatologist...I have actinic keratosis, as a direct result from the above.  It will eventually catch up with you...no exceptions.  It was then I started on Renova, products by M.D. Forte (Rx strength alpha-hydroxies, glycolic acid, Vit C, Vit A etc.) chemical peels.  A lot of this could have probably been avoided if I had had the knowledge in my 'youth' that I have now about the damaging effects of the above.  However, that was then, and I didn't.  This is NOW and I do.   So.....we go from here and get on with it.  And now I am doing flexeffect training...which is so great!  I still 'dabble' in all kinds of 'skin enhancing lotions and potions - can't resist them)...but it is fun!  I never use 2 on top of one another;
just sort of alternate my favorites for ongoing results.  In the dermatology dept. the favorite phrase seems to be "optimal response".  Well, that is what you must go for with flexeffect........you want it quick or do you want optimal response".  I want optimal response.  So, for the 40 yr old...hang in there optimal response is forthcoming.  For Ginger....please rethink your tanning options.   LOL.  Thx again
for this great site!

Jean  RESULTS

Just a quick postscript.  After 4 wks of flex effect, I wrote about my cheeks and eyelids.  I forgot to mention the most noticeable change I have seen,  It is my smile.  When I smiled before, I had a sunken-in, hollow appearance.  I mean I had a nice enough smile, but it looked 'misplaced' on my face.  I have a long face and when your cheeks cave in when you smile....you get the picture.  This is the most noticeable of all.  I know this is not my imagination because I am sooooo familiar with my face as I have scrutinized and examined every crease, crevice, crater, fold, sag...I KNOW where EVERYTHING is, so I am extremely aware of where it isn't.  This is the first major improvement.  I have noted other minor improvements.  But at my age (57) it does not take a mega improvement to make me happy, even a HINT of an improvement impresses the socks off me!  Ask Deb if this is one of the 1st areas to 'develop'.  I'm just curious.  Thx again.

Jean

Hi Jean

The area that shows the build first seems to have more to do with which facial muscles you have the most control over.  Great Post ...Thanks much and please continue to keep us up to date ;-)

Deb

731

Sunscreen    Jun 29, 2000

Thank you so much for responding to my message.  I really do appreciate the words of encouragement.  I will continue to persevere, of course, and be diligent as suggested.  One thing I do possess is 'staying power'.  You mentioned I was on the right track w/Renova...then asked if I used a sunscreen. YES I
DEFINITELY DO...I USE A TOTAL BLOCK SPF30 sunscreen.  Another message from a fellow face-builder, said she experienced a leathery skin.  I have not, but not in it for so very long...I, too use products containing glycolic acid....and have for well over a yr.   Should 'leathery skin' be something I should be
watching for?  You did mention some had experienced same from use of glycolic acid prod.  I hope not, as glycolic acid prod have greatly enhanced the condition of my skin.  The chemical peels I get are also glycolic acid.  Again, thx for your response! 

Jean

Jean,


I, too, use glycolic acid products and have micropeels done and have never experienced a leathery skin kind of reaction. Occasionally, I will have some transitory dryness. I also haven't heard of anyone developing leathery skin from the exercises. My thought is this would have to be a pre-existing condition due to years of skin neglect and probable sun exposure.

Jason

46

MSM            July 28, 1999

hi deb,

I wanted to share with you that I take a lot of vitamins  and the latest one I've   also been using is MSM. I served on the web to find out more about it and was surprise this stuff  was so important to our health and skin especially when one ages, your body slow down on producing while your body need it most. It works with vitamin C. I also noticed that somehow the morning breath was gone if I take one before I go to sleep with vit c and plenty of water. My son also have the problem with morning breath and I let him tried and it worked on him. He eats anything and everything and he had a  problem  with the breath because the processed food diminished MSM also in food.

As far as skin application.  The lotion form works  real good if  your have   dry ankles and elbow but it stinks the face. I also read that the lotion is a good sunblock and it keeps mosquitoes away and is also soothe arthritis pain.

Teresa

Hi Teresa

I've not heard of MSM.   Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out!

Deb

42

Vit C/Selenium       July 18, 1999


Hello Deb and fellow Flexeffetors:

Well, I received the Twinlab Liquid C and then mixed it with the liquid selenium. Didn't like it.  The mixture left my skin feeling really tacky on my skin (I also used it as a body moisturizer).  I did use it sparingly as well.

Deb - I just read in one of Dr. Andrew Weil's books, that selenium, when taken with vitamin c, negates the effectiveness of the c - so he advises to take one 1/2 an hour earlier than the other.  I'm wondering if that would also apply to mixing the two together, if the selenium would weaken the vitamin c's potency, even though we're not using it as an ingestable, just a topical.  I've no idea. 

Anywho, I'm in search again, just wanted to share that with ya'll.  I was actually wondering if I could take my regular body lotion, and mix the liquid c into it (small portions at a time because the c oxidizes and loses it's efficacy) , and see how that works? 

Deb, see what you've started....we're one big old vitamin c/selenium lab project - save the worlds dermis and sagging facial muscles.  I think it's totally fabu myself.   I look forward to the guinea pigs sharing there concoctions and experiences.   Chow for now.  

Olympia

40

SUNSCREEN, VIT C AND SELENIUM      July 12, 1999


HEY DEB,

I WANTED TO ASK YOU WHY YOU RECOMMENDED SOLBAR 50 SUNSCREEN?  IS IT BETTER THAN OTHER 45-50 SPF CREAMS ON THE MARKET?  I HATE!! SUNSCREENS. THEY MAKE MY FACE LOOK SHINY/GREASY.  ALSO, HOW DO YOU LAYER THE SUNSCREEN AND VIT C/SELENIUM.  WHICH GOES FIRST?

HEY OLYMPIA, LET US KNOW HOW YOU LIKE THE VIT C/SELENIUM COMBO?  I USE THE POWDERED VIT C WITH SELENIUM AND FOUND THAT IF I USE TOO MUCH POWDERED C, WHEN MIXED WITH THE SELENIUM, IT TURNS SLIGHTLY BROWN AND MAKES MY FACE LOOK DIRTY.  SO THE MIXING RATIO THAT I FOUND WORKS BEST IS TWICE AS MUCH SELENIUM AS VIT C.  THE ONLY REASON THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO USE THE VIT C IN LIQUID FORM IS THAT I HEARD IT DEGRADES QUICKLY.  I'M NOT SURE HOW TRUE THAT IS.  I WILL BE TALKING TO A RESEARCH SCIENTIST/CLINICAL NUTRITIONIST AND WILL LET YOU ALL KNOW WHAT SHE SAYS.

P.S. DEB, I HAVE A VERY SMALL MOUTH AND STRAIGHT, THIN LIPS.  THE OTHER DAY MY HUSBAND COMMENTED THAT MY NEW LIPSTICK MADE MY LIPS LOOK MORE SHAPELY.  DEB, I'VE BEEN USING THE SAME LIPSTICK FOR YEARS. I GUESS THE FACIAL EXERCISES ARE ENHANCING MY LIPS.   I DO THE LOWER LIP POUT SEVERAL TIMES A DAY, BUT IT'S ONLY BEEN ABOUT 2 WEEKS. DO YOU THINK, OVER A PERIOD OF TIME,  IT'S POSSIBLE TO MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE AND REALLY INCREASE MY LIP SIZE?

THANKS MUCH,                                                                                                                          LINDA

Hi Linda

It is possible to make a big-time difference!  Think about it,   you're mouth is nothing but muscle. Regardless of the shape or size of your lips, the idea is to keep them full and without lines.   I can't think of a better way to achieve this than building them.  Let us know what you think in a couple of months!

I always apply sunscreen first.  I use Solbar 50 because I've been told it has the highest SPF on the market. I also use Retin-A and Solbar so far is the only high SPF I have found that works well with it (doesn't sting)  I too find sunscreens  greasy so after I apply the sunscreen I take a tissue and blot my face.  This makes a big difference by absorbing the excess oil.  Let me know if you find something you like better.  I would love to try it myself.

Thanks,                                                                                                                                        Deb

38

Vit. C and Selenium      July 12, 1999

Hi Debs:

I just ordered the Twinlab liquid C from the Vitamin Shoppe and the liquid Selenium from Life Extension and we'll see what happens.  I priced the vitamin C body lotion from Cellex-C, and the stuff is $ 236 ON SALE!  Scary!  I'll let you all know how the liquid/liquid works out - I'm very eager to see myself.  I
love this discussion board Deb - it's a wonderful/helpful forum not only for discussion of one of our favorite topics, but provides us all with this great information sharing/feedback network. Very cool.  Thanks much.

Olympia  

Hi Olympia

Thanks Girl... Got to admit, I'm having fun with this board myself!  Liquid C / liquid Selenium,  EVEN BETTER!   Hey Linda, what do you think?

Deb

32

Vitamins/minerals for the skin       June 30, 1999

Hi Everybody

Check out post below.  If you try it, let us know what you think. Have your own home remedies?  Let us know.

Deb

31

Liquid Selenium        June 29, 1999

HI DEB,

I GOT YOUR VIDEO ON MONDAY.  I LOVE THE WAY IT MAKES MY FACE FEEL.  I HAVE USED OTHER FACIAL TONER EXERCISES, BUT WITH YOURS I FEEL LIKE I REALLY GOT A WORKOUT.   TODAY IS DAY 2, SO I'LL KEEP YOU IN TOUCH ON MY PROGRESS.

ALSO, I FOUND SELENIUM IN LIQUID FORM FROM A COMPANY CALLED LIFE EXTENSION FOUNDATION (1800-544-4440).  I MIXED A HANDFUL OF BOTH LIQUID SELENIUM AND POWDERED VIT. C.   AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS MIXTURE MADE MY SKIN LOOK BEAUTIFUL!  IT ALSO SEEM TO HAVE A TIGHTENING MASK LIKE EFFECT ESPECIALLY AROUND THE EYES!!

DID YOU EXPERIENCE THIS EFFECT?  WHAT PROPORTIONS DID YOU USE? AND CAN YOU PREMIX A SMALL AMOUNT OR WILL THE VIT C LOSE IT'S POTENCY.  I NOTICED WHEN I PREMIXED A SMALL AMOUNT (I WENT AWAY FOR THE WEEKEND) THAT BY THE SECOND OR THIRD DAY IT TURNED A
DIRTY BROWN AND HAD PARTICLES FLOATING IN IT.

THANKS FOR THE GREAT ADVICE,
LINDA

Hey Linda!

Remember, I mixed it the other way around?  So glad you tired it... now it's my turn!  I'll get back to ya. 

Excited!!! 

Deb

23

Vit.C / Selenium for skin    June 17, 1999

Deb

I have your book and have been training for only a month, but am beginning to notice a difference already!
I saw on the website that you use a combination of Vitamin C and Selenium for your daytime moisturizer. Where do you purchase them in pure form? I can only find Vit.C serums mixed with Vit. E and selenium in tablet form.

Hi There

I have been purchasing Vit. C in liquid form from a health food store and dissolving the selenium tablets in the C. I have sense learned (from a client) of a liquid form of selenium.  Because vitamin C is unstable in  liquid form it is hard to come by as many stores wont carry it.  So, I've decided to reverse the solution and purchase Vitamin C in powder form and put it in the liquid selenium.   I  haven't as yet put the two together so that's my next move (don't know what I'll come up with).  If you should try this, please get back to me and let me know what you think.  You are on your own as to where to find,   no doubt any health food store would carry it. 

Because of the high cost of Vitamin C for the face and the possible lack of vitamin potency if anyone has any home remedies (Vitamin C for the face) please share! Thanks.

Deb

11

Retinal Cream      May 22, 1999

Deb, I do a lot of cycling and am therefore in the sun quite a bit. I wear a helmet and use sunscreen. Still, I worry about skin damage over time. Should I also be using an over-the-counter cream with retinal? Will it actually help, and will pretty much any brand work? I notice some products are reasonably priced and others a lot more expensive - yet they all have similar ingredients and concentrations.

Thanks
Doug

Hi Doug

Retin A along with sunscreen is every bit as important to me as facialbuilding. I have not used an over-the-counter retinal.  I started with Rx cream 0.025% worked my way to 0.05% and now use a 0.1%.  It takes time to adjust but well worth it.  If you decide to give it a try, PLEASE pick up the book RETIN-A  by Joseph P. Bark, M.D. I have found this book to be invaluable.  You've got to know what you're doing and most doctors haven't a clue when it comes to working with this stuff.  Even if you get your Dr. to prescribe it,  you're pretty much on your own to learn the ins and outs.  Let me know how it goes.  Thanks for the post

Deb

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